Article on AGP by Lorelei

[TinselAngel]

This is a really excellent article, in which AGP males, in their own words, describe much of the behaviour outlined in the trans widows threads over the last 5 years.

Many people don't believe trans widows, maybe they'll believe the men themselves? (nb Mods this article is based on source material old enough that the men in it did not identify as women as far as I'm aware)

loreleihatpin.substack.com/p/autogynephilia?s=r

Love that a paraphilia that’s frequently comorbid with voyeurism has been rebranded as a reason for men to access spaces where women are naked.

Yep.

I've read it and I'm getting flashbacks to several weird encounters and conversations over the years. It explains so much. In my teens I worked Saturdays in Etam and can remember one particular man who wanted to engage in long conversations about skirts and underwear and was clearly getting off on it. It was horrible and exploitative.

Most of the lesbian groups I know have been infiltrated by transwomen who say they are lesbians. Most of them are older men and I've tried to talk to the women who run the groups about AGP and how the men are using lesbians as props in their fantasies. Most of the women who attend those groups have drunk the Kool-aid and are obsessed with being kind. I'm going to forward that article to a couple of them. I'm a Hateful Bigot as far as they're concerned, so I may as well cement my reputation!

The world is a shitty enough place for women already without this

Yes, and the damage being done to countless girls so these males can hide their motives behind the innocence of children.

Sorry that's not really what I mean, I mean thinking that "porn made them do it" is an over simplification which wrongly absolves the men involved.

@TinselAngel

Sorry that's not really what I mean, I mean thinking that "porn made them do it" is an over simplification which wrongly absolves the men involved.

I don't really think that was the intent. It was meant to be an answer to the question, what makes a person start to associate sexual arousal with something like an image of themselves as a woman? Or alternately why does someone start to get turned on by leg braces, or rubber suits? What's the trigger and what causes it to grow to the point where it dominates their sex life and even relationships as a whole?

There is some understanding of the second part of that I think, but I believe the first is still somewhat mysterious.

I'm not sure that all or the majority of men who are AGP started from watching sissy porn though, that doesn't seem consistent with descriptions of the people involved though I do think porn usage in kids makes fetishes a more likely outcome.

I don't think sissy hypno porn is the cause for most men who suffer from AGP, I do think that a lot of men experiment with watching transgender porn and as they get addicted to that they are gradually exposed to increasing amounts of SHP, the suggestive nature of which leads to them questioning themselves and their sex for the first time and may put them on the journey to transition.

In a previous thread on here someone suggested listening to a podcast where Anne Lawrence was interviewed. It seemed to be clear that AGP develops long before puberty, so I believe the links with porn and AGP to be false. They suggested identifying AGP boys and castrating them before puberty! (Quite horrifying).

Another interesting thing that was said was that some men fully surgically transition, but still maintain a male persona in public and still present as male in public. I found that really interesting as it's something I've never thought about before, the single-sex spaces issue wouldn't come up with that.

The problem with all behaviour when you give it an identity, rather than a clinical definition is that the behaviour becomes acceptable and that people have to accept it. Mislabelling AGP as trans is what allows these behaviours to manifest, and also for sufferer to think that it's not sexual arousal behind the motivation, but gender dysphoria.

There is an obsession around linking it to deviant behaviour, trans widows and single sex spaces, but my main concern (as I've seen it happen) is with boys with AGP who are sent on a route to transition. This could be your son, nephew etc, and at an age where there is still innocence and the hormones aren't raging around their bodies.

They suggested identifying AGP boys and castrating them before puberty! (Quite horrifying).

If you mean this podcast, it's clear that the hosts were not in agreement with Lawrence on a number of points.

The end of the conversation took an unexpected turn when she described mindset, the intensity, and the desperate measures that seem so reasonable when you’re tortured with severe autogynephilia. For the record, Anne has not been involved in the field for many years and her reflections do not encompass the ROGD phenomenon. Stella and I feel it’s important to listen to people’s experiences so we can understand all the manifestations of GD. However, we believe in the power of therapeutic intervention and we don’t think a nihilistic approach is helpful to deeply distressed individuals.

podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/67-pioneers-series-men-trapped-in-mens-bodies-with/id1542655295?i=1000554455773

There is an obsession around linking it to deviant behaviour, trans widows and single sex spaces,

Who are you saying is obsessed with linking AGP to trans widows? There's barely any awareness at all let alone an "obsession".

There is an obsession around linking it to deviant behaviour, trans widows and single sex spaces,

Erm no-one really knows about AGP though, do they? - so on the face of it an ‘obsession’ seems pretty unlikely…

Besides this expert researcher has identified a rather large link. Numbers like this matter -whether you like it or not.

Personally I think it should be more widely known.

Didn't Glinner do a video deep dive into the connection between AGP and sissy hypno porn?

Actually, it might have been on his blog.

@lemonchilli

Didn't Glinner do a video deep dive into the connection between AGP and sissy hypno porn?

Actually, it might have been on his blog.

There's a YouTube interview of a trans widow talking about it.

@TinselAngel thanks for the link

Just checked out the first 10 minutes and it looks interesting, basically a young woman whose husband had a porn addiction and was then exposed to SHP and has now transitioned, left the family and moved across the country.

MangyInseam

You can tell that to people I suppose, that they should keep sexual things at home, but the fact is that often we don't know what is going on in the mind of someone in a public space. What is the difference between some guy wearing a dress because he wants to subvert gender norms, and one who is playing a role for a thrill?

I think most women don't actually care too much about why men do this, nor is it strictly our business why. In the end, the result for women is pretty much the same. Therefore what we do very much care about is that men are using this as an excuse to breach our spaces.

That is why I said -
I would think the line should be drawn when those fantasies are taken into a public space, particularly one that is designated for a particular group they are not part of. That's why we have to have a solid 'no men in women's spaces, end of!' It's the only way.

@Roseglen84

MangyInseam

You can tell that to people I suppose, that they should keep sexual things at home, but the fact is that often we don't know what is going on in the mind of someone in a public space. What is the difference between some guy wearing a dress because he wants to subvert gender norms, and one who is playing a role for a thrill?

I think most women don't actually care too much about why men do this, nor is it strictly our business why. In the end, the result for women is pretty much the same. Therefore what we do very much care about is that men are using this as an excuse to breach our spaces.

That is why I said -
I would think the line should be drawn when those fantasies are taken into a public space, particularly one that is designated for a particular group they are not part of. That's why we have to have a solid 'no men in women's spaces, end of!' It's the only way.

I didn't think we were talking just about women's spaces though, but public spaces in general where simply interacting in public may be used as an affirmation in someone's fantasy.

Which is a perfectly possible scenario. But so is a gay male cross-dresser who has no interest in that, and some guy wearing a dress might look quite similar as well. Do we react to them all similarly? Does allowing the less problematic instances make it difficult to shut down the problematic ones?

I suppose my thinking with all of this is that our society teaches that while there are valid and important physical boundaries around sexual behaviour, mental boundaries around it, what we all do in our own minds, are not important and may even be unhealthy.

But this seems to assume that the mental landscape isn't strongly linked to manifestation, which I think is incorrect.

Someone upthread mentioned that these boys that develop AGP could be anyone, our sons, brothers, nephews, students, just otherwise normal little boys. And by allowing these kids, who are not yet of an age to be sexually active, to believe that whatever sexual thoughts they have, it is harmless and nothing to worry about - we are putting them in a position where they will totally unwittingly indulge and reinforce the attraction and arousal derived from that kind of thinking. By they time they are twenty they could have eight years of that reinforcement behind them. And no tools to try and repress what may have become a very significant obsession.

I have an incredibly low opinion of AGPs, but I won't elaborate on those opinions - for obvious reasons.

However, I have heard people say that AGP doesn't automatically mean that it's abusive and offensive to women.

But, surely that's a contradiction in terms? You cannot grossly parody a pornified mockery of a woman and it be truly benign?

I just know that I'm sick of the fucking sight of them.

Maybe i'm being unfair with that view, but i'll live with that.

@Ameanstreakamilewide

I have an incredibly low opinion of AGPs, but I won't elaborate on those opinions - for obvious reasons.

However, I have heard people say that AGP doesn't automatically mean that it's abusive and offensive to women.

But, surely that's a contradiction in terms? You cannot grossly parody a pornified mockery of a woman and it be truly benign?

I just know that I'm sick of the fucking sight of them.

Maybe i'm being unfair with that view, but i'll live with that.

Same.

@Ameanstreakamilewide

I have an incredibly low opinion of AGPs, but I won't elaborate on those opinions - for obvious reasons.

However, I have heard people say that AGP doesn't automatically mean that it's abusive and offensive to women.

But, surely that's a contradiction in terms? You cannot grossly parody a pornified mockery of a woman and it be truly benign?

I just know that I'm sick of the fucking sight of them.

Maybe i'm being unfair with that view, but i'll live with that.

AGP just refers to a paraphilia that develops in some men.

I suspect if we dipped too far in the sexual fantasies of many people you might find that it involved thinking of people as sexual objects in a way that didn't really see them as whole persons.

It’s appalling that women only spaces aren’t guarded and only XX people are
allowed to use them.
“Women’s Group “ has a person with a penis in, giving out really creepy vibes ( In my opinion)
It was advertised as a “ Safe space” as “ Only Women”
But clearly not.
Very unsettling.

Lorelei is a legend. I know she gets attacked a lot but she continues to post incredible stuff. I'm glad to see her getting mentioned here. She deserves the recognition.