Why are any schools allowing this in their libraries?

[tabbycatstripy]

There was a mini scandal over a Catholic school in Southwark last month, with complaints to the Archbishop from a Tory MP (Eliot Colburn), after an invitation to a writer to come and promote his books and talk to the kids was withdrawn because his books were judged by the diocese to be ‘outside what is permissible in a Catholic school’. Complaints were made to Ofsted, the governors were dismissed by the diocese, and apparently the HT, who wanted the visit to go ahead, was at odds with the church.

So far so normal.

Twitter then went crazy in support of this writer, saying the books were lovely, fun, inclusive, with hardly any sexual content, and it was all so homophobic.

Anyway, I just saw an extract from the book:

twitter.com/dolphinmaria/status/1503490597931339785?s=21&t=0ZURhjXM1Ln6esoraw6Ilw

Why does a Tory MP (or any adult) think this content is suitable for adolescents?

Why is any librarian placing books in KS3 collections that talk this explicitly about (and trivialise) anal sex, oral sex, and porn?

That paragraph is quoting homophobic abuse directed at a child. I suspect 11-14 year olds will be aware of homophobia?

You think that’s suitable for 11 year olds?

And it’s not quoting anything. It’s fiction. You can present homophobia in age appropriate ways. This doesn’t.

And I’ll say why I think that reaction illustrates the problem. Because the aims are laudable (tackling homophobia, encouraging inclusion) a blind eye is turned to the fact that the content itself is sexually explicit, and as responsible adults we are not allowed to encourage children to access content of that nature.

So the problem gets brushed aside because some people believe in exceptionalism: “It’s about homophobia so it‘s okay.”

It’s not okay. Adding a rainbow to this content about kids orgasming and ‘sucking cock’ does not negate the fact that it is not suitable for children.

That looks like an account of fairly standard schoolboy homophobic bullying to me. I'm pretty sure that the rest of the book portrays the bullies negatively. That's what's important. I really have no problem with the language at all, and I think your moral panic is a little bit ridiculous.

Yawn.

I’m horrified that you call it “moral panic”. Children should not be reading this content, and it is incorrect to think most 11 year olds would talk like this or be around people who talk like this. Just because some children have been exposed to this language that doesn’t make it “fairly standard”.

‘He makes Harry come”?
“Right up his arse?”
“He wasn’t a porn star...”

Kids don’t talk like that in general. We shouldn’t pretend they do in order to push agendas.

I wouldn’t be hugely happy with my 11 year old reading that. But 13+ it’s likely to be language they’ve all heard before in the classroom/corridor/playground.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I think you've misunderstood why he was banned and therefore why he was being defended.

The school chaplain wrote, "the event is about promoting the literature of a lifestyle choice that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ". Describing homosexuality as a lifestyle choice is such a homophobic trope.

Given the author wasn't even meant to be talking about the book you've quoted (which is just illustrating more examples of homophobia) I don't think you can pretend that the event was cancelled for any reason other than straight up homophobia.

Kids don’t talk like that in general. We shouldn’t pretend they do in order to push agendas.

They do. Maybe not in your earshot but they definitely do.

It's not a book aimed at 11 year olds.
As secondary schools are for 11-19 year olds the books available in their libraries have to cover a large age range.

@tabbycatstripy

I’m horrified that you call it “moral panic”. Children should not be reading this content, and it is incorrect to think most 11 year olds would talk like this or be around people who talk like this. Just because some children have been exposed to this language that doesn’t make it “fairly standard”.

‘He makes Harry come”?
“Right up his arse?”
“He wasn’t a porn star...”

Kids don’t talk like that in general. We shouldn’t pretend they do in order to push agendas.

At that age we were passing round copies of teen mags which had position of the week and descriptions of oral sex, and that was back in the 90s (pre-internet)

Chuck: Some kids do. Most don’t. Not at 11, and just because some children are exposed to obscenity, does that mean we should expose them all to obscenity? Or should we ask ourselves how and why 11 year olds are being exposed to pornographic language, and try to manage that better?

I don’t get how they benefit from this.

‘At that age we were passing round copies of teen mags which had position of the week and descriptions of oral sex, and that was back in the 90s (pre-internet)’

Were you? I’ve never seen 11 year olds passing round any material like that apart from children who have been failed by adults.

At 14, sure. At 11, no.

Let's try a writing exercise shall we OP? Write a scene where a character is experiencing homophobic bullying from their school mates, what kind of things might they be saying?

‘As secondary schools are for 11-19 year olds the books available in their libraries have to cover a large age range.’

That is true. I’d still say this is inappropriate in a KS4 library. For kids 16+ I wouldn’t worry.

‘Write a scene where a character is experiencing homophobic bullying from their school mates, what kind of things might they be saying?’

They might be saying any number of awful things. That doesn’t mean they need to be repeated in children’s books. Just as some children use repulsive racial slurs - we don’t put them in ‘fun’ books for KS3 libraries.

MedusasBadHairDay

I haven’t. I explained above why his invitation was rescinded, and I’m making the point that I don’t think the book is appropriate for children at all.

@tabbycatstripy

‘Write a scene where a character is experiencing homophobic bullying from their school mates, what kind of things might they be saying?’

They might be saying any number of awful things. That doesn’t mean they need to be repeated in children’s books. Just as some children use repulsive racial slurs - we don’t put them in ‘fun’ books for KS3 libraries.

I think it depends what you think the purpose of books is? Are they just light entertainment? Or can they also be a way to educate our whole difficult issues in a safe manner?

Personally I think they can be both. And I think kids benefit massively from the latter.

If an 11 year old is gay (or just accused of it by schoolmates) then they will have heard language like that. This book allows them to see themselves in a book, and (I assume) gives them a positive uplifting ending. For the school mates it might be useful for them to see what harm their words can do, and learn to empathise with their victim instead of othering then.

I'd say that kind of book is valuable and useful.

‘Let's try a writing exercise shall we OP? Write a scene where a character is experiencing homophobic bullying from their school mates, what kind of things might they be saying?’

But rather than do that, I could suggest ways to tackle this topic that don’t involve talking about kids orgasming or things going ‘right up their arses’.

When I’ve come across homophobic bullying in schools (and it is rife), the younger students talk more along the lines of: “That’s so gay, I bet he puts stuff up his bum”.

Kids don’t regularly say “make him come” or “sucking cock” at 11-14 unless they’ve been exposed to inappropriate material (porn).

And how is that a defence of exposing them to further inappropriate material?

I’m so tired of the “they’re all watching porn so what can we do about it” shrug I see from people who should know better.

My issue with this is that it is a parody of the Lord’s Prayer which most Christians respect. Can youimagine what the response would be if someone were to parody verses from the Koran in this way? But Catholic schools are supposed to accept it.

I do not belong to an orgqnised religion but I can entirely understand why the school consider this inappropriate.

Schools can teach about homophobic hate and bullying without using this particular resource.

“If an 11 year old is gay (or just accused of it by schoolmates) then they will have heard language like that. This book allows them to see themselves in a book, and (I assume) gives them a positive uplifting ending.”

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Some children are abused, so let’s present them abuse in a ‘fun, inclusive way’ and say it’s helpful.

If a child is targeted with racist slurs, do we include hardcore right-wing racism in KS3 libraries? No we don’t. We tackle it in lessons or in private, and we involve adults to stop it happening because they shouldn’t be hearing it.

We don’t add more.

If you cant go to the cinema at 11 and watch a film with similar, is it appropriate for the average 11 year old, i think not. 13/14 maybe. Its got nothing to do with sexuality but everything to so with the language. If 11 year olds are subjected to that, then deal with the problem in more constructive ways.

‘But Catholic schools are supposed to accept it.’

It’s obviously completely inappropriate as a parody of prayer alone. Those teachers who support it aren’t standing by the terms of their contracts.

I attended a Catholic secondary school, an all-girls covent, and the amount of abuse and racism I was faced with was a total shock. I hated the school with a passion. Thirty years later my DSis sent her two girls to a mixed Catholic school, I was surprised but figured the bullying we faced was a thing of the past. Both of my DN’s were tortured by those intolerant little shits. Both DN’s present as white, so they didn’t have to face any racism, but the elder was openly gay and suffered bullying and sexually advances by male classmates, her younger sister was collateral damage and ended up refusing to go to school because of the bullying, she’s now in her early 20s and a total shut-in. Her sister left the school in Year 12 and transferred to a college. She suffered from anxiety but now she has completed her degree and is much happier and in a relationship.

If you do not allow your children to read about difficult subjects they are never going to empathise. As a parent you have every right to object to what your child reads, but you do not have the right to make that choice for others. Today’s 11-year-olds are aware of a lot, they certainly do not need to protected from a fiction book aimed at KS3 children.

Did you know that in 2018 three sexual assaults were reported every day in primary schools, these are not assaults by adults they are peer-on-peer. The figures today are probably much higher. Children need to be taught about consent much earlier, the same goes for homophobia or racism, sexism etc. Anyone trying to overly shelter their children by keeping them ignorant are part of the problem.