Why are any schools allowing this in their libraries?

[tabbycatstripy]

There was a mini scandal over a Catholic school in Southwark last month, with complaints to the Archbishop from a Tory MP (Eliot Colburn), after an invitation to a writer to come and promote his books and talk to the kids was withdrawn because his books were judged by the diocese to be ‘outside what is permissible in a Catholic school’. Complaints were made to Ofsted, the governors were dismissed by the diocese, and apparently the HT, who wanted the visit to go ahead, was at odds with the church.

So far so normal.

Twitter then went crazy in support of this writer, saying the books were lovely, fun, inclusive, with hardly any sexual content, and it was all so homophobic.

Anyway, I just saw an extract from the book:

twitter.com/dolphinmaria/status/1503490597931339785?s=21&t=0ZURhjXM1Ln6esoraw6Ilw

Why does a Tory MP (or any adult) think this content is suitable for adolescents?

Why is any librarian placing books in KS3 collections that talk this explicitly about (and trivialise) anal sex, oral sex, and porn?

Rhubarb: You’re not seriously suggesting a school that put American Psycho on a library shelf for kids to read would not be in breach of safeguarding laws?

Please tell me you don’t think that. Have you read it?

@Edmontosaurus

My issue with this is that it is a parody of the Lord’s Prayer which most Christians respect. Can youimagine what the response would be if someone were to parody verses from the Koran in this way? But Catholic schools are supposed to accept it.

I do not belong to an orgqnised religion but I can entirely understand why the school consider this inappropriate.

Schools can teach about homophobic hate and bullying without using this particular resource.

Fortunately the school didn't consider it inappropriate, it was as I understand it just one slightly bonkers school chaplain who has now resigned.

@tabbycatstripy

Rhubarb: You’re not seriously suggesting a school that put American Psycho on a library shelf for kids to read would not be in breach of safeguarding laws?

Please tell me you don’t think that. Have you read it?

What is a safeguarding law? Be specific.

‘Lol, it was you who called to authority when you said it was unlawful. Christ.’

Are you suggesting schools shouldn’t give due consideration to their legal obligations when presenting material to children? Are you suggesting the actual law isn’t genuine “authority”?

@tabbycatstripy

MedusasBadHairDay

What do you mean exactly? Do you mean would I think he shouldn’t be allowed to do a writer visit to a school to talk to kids if I didn’t think his books contained inappropriate material?

Oh interesting swerve of the question..

Let's try again. The people who wanted the author banned believe his books promote a "lifestyle choice" (homosexuality). Do you agree that this was a good reason for the cancellation?

@tabbycatstripy

‘Lol, it was you who called to authority when you said it was unlawful. Christ.’

Are you suggesting schools shouldn’t give due consideration to their legal obligations when presenting material to children? Are you suggesting the actual law isn’t genuine “authority”?

You can't seem to tell us which law this is. I am not familiar with children's safeguarding legislation outside of a rudimentary understanding of The Children's Act. So please do tell which part of the Education Act makes giving a child this book unlawful.

Most school libraries will have a junior and senior section and an active school librarian (as happens to be the case here) will ensure that only the right age groups will be borrowing that material.

This. Why do you jump to the "Shock horror 11 year olds are reading this" trope, OP, when you have no idea what the arrangements are in that school library?

@tabbycatstripy

RhubarbCrumbled

You seemed to be denying the importance of censoring what children should be allowed to read.

And the call to authority isn’t going to work here. As a parent and an educator myself I have a right to a view on what schools present to children.

You absolutely have a right to a view. Everyone does. But your view on one passage from one book does not outweigh the professional experience of the librarian. It's my job to read books and assess how they will sit within a collection.

How many books for teenagers have you read cover to cover recently to enable you to judge where this stands on decency, language, relevancy and being well written?

With regards censorship, this is part of the professional life of a librarian. We make judgements as to what we do not stock based on experience, not what we believe, not one page, not the opinion of people who do not know what we do.

I would suggest you go to the school library and talk to the librarian about what they actually do.

I have read American Pyscho. I have also read Night by Eli Wiesel. Night was far more disturbing and upsetting yet I doubt many people would argue it doesn't belong in a school library. That's because context is vitally important. A thing you seem to be missing entirely with this book.

@tabbycatstripy

Rhubarb: You’re not seriously suggesting a school that put American Psycho on a library shelf for kids to read would not be in breach of safeguarding laws?

Please tell me you don’t think that. Have you read it?

You suggested American Psycho as an example. I simply said that there's a difference between putting a book in someone's hand and putting in on the shelf.

And yes, I've read it.

@tabbycatstripy

Rhubarb: You’re not seriously suggesting a school that put American Psycho on a library shelf for kids to read would not be in breach of safeguarding laws?

Please tell me you don’t think that. Have you read it?

Children are up to 18 years old. Do you think it would be a breach of safeguarding laws for American Psycho to be on 6th form library shelves?

Betty:

Here’s the full list of laws schools are legally bound to pay regard to when making decisions about the care of the children they teach:

cpdonline.co.uk/knowledge-base/safeguarding/legislation-safeguarding-children/#key-information-from-the-legislation

Exposing children to highly sexualised materials would represent a failure on the part of the staff member to have regard to their responsibilities, particularly under statutory guidance on Keeping Children Safe in Education and particularly relating to CSE (Child Sexual Exploitation).

If you don’t know that, learn it, or don’t work with kids.

‘Do you think it would be a breach of safeguarding laws for American Psycho to be on 6th form library shelves?’

Yes. It has no place on school shelves where children might access it before they pass out of the legal care of school staff.

‘You suggested American Psycho as an example. I simply said that there's a difference between putting a book in someone's hand and putting in on the shelf.’

There is unlikely to be any legal distinction at all. Schools have statutory responsibilities and they treat them lightly at their peril.

‘Everyone does. But your view on one passage from one book does not outweigh the professional experience of the librarian. It's my job to read books and assess how they will sit within a collection.’

If we had this conversation in school, I would follow my own professional instincts and refer the matter to the DSL, as I’ve been trained to do. This isn’t a pissing contest, it’s about the safeguarding of kids.

@tabbycatstripy

Betty:

Here’s the full list of laws schools are legally bound to pay regard to when making decisions about the care of the children they teach:

cpdonline.co.uk/knowledge-base/safeguarding/legislation-safeguarding-children/#key-information-from-the-legislation

Exposing children to highly sexualised materials would represent a failure on the part of the staff member to have regard to their responsibilities, particularly under statutory guidance on Keeping Children Safe in Education and particularly relating to CSE (Child Sexual Exploitation).

If you don’t know that, learn it, or don’t work with kids.

I don't work with kids nor do I plan to. I can't see anything on that that states or implies you have to censor books.

‘That's because context is vitally important. A thing you seem to be missing entirely with this book.’

Context is important. As I’ve said, there are situations in which I think distressing or sexual content should form part of the educational experience. But you are treating this as if context is the only factor. It’s not.

‘ I don't work with kids nor do I plan to. I can't see anything on that that states or implies you have to censor books.’

Then you haven’t understood it. Which isn’t surprising, seeing as teachers are trained and retrained every year of their careers on this topic and still these decisions can be tricky. But if you’ve never come across the legislation before or worked with kids, maybe you could have a bit of humility and consider whether you know enough about this to comment with such confidence.

@tabbycatstripy

‘You suggested American Psycho as an example. I simply said that there's a difference between putting a book in someone's hand and putting in on the shelf.’

There is unlikely to be any legal distinction at all. Schools have statutory responsibilities and they treat them lightly at their peril.

So if they did put that on a sixth form shelf and a parent found out and wanted to challenge them around legality what would they do?

@tabbycatstripy

‘ I don't work with kids nor do I plan to. I can't see anything on that that states or implies you have to censor books.’

Then you haven’t understood it. Which isn’t surprising, seeing as teachers are trained and retrained every year of their careers on this topic and still these decisions can be tricky. But if you’ve never come across the legislation before or worked with kids, maybe you could have a bit of humility and consider whether you know enough about this to comment with such confidence.

You clearly understand fuck all about what you are talking about.

‘So if they did put that on a sixth form shelf and a parent found out and wanted to challenge them around legality what would they do?’

They could take it to the governors, complain to Ofsted or - ultimately, if the issue wasn’t resolved - have the matter heard in court to establish whether the school has acted unlawfully.

@tabbycatstripy

‘You suggested American Psycho as an example. I simply said that there's a difference between putting a book in someone's hand and putting in on the shelf.’

There is unlikely to be any legal distinction at all. Schools have statutory responsibilities and they treat them lightly at their peril.

So getting back to the original book in the dispute. I'm going to go away and read this book again and assess it (again) on the very many criteria we have for book selection in schools.

This will include looking at it from the statutory guidance point of view because that's all part of the selection process.

What I'm gathering from this, is that you do not trust professionals other than those who hold the same moral values as you.

Okay, Betty.

I’d be unbelievably unhappy with this. It’s also incredibly regressive to equate exposure to gay people (all fine) with exposure to over sexualised stuff like this. What about books where gay people bring up kids together in suburbia! That would be radical representation. This isn’t suitable for a school at all.

‘What I'm gathering from this, is that you do not trust professionals other than those who hold the same moral values as you.’

I treat other professionals as I expect them to treat me: with ordinary professional respect, putting the interests of the students and my legal responsibilities before that professional respect.