Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jess Phillips: no trans person I've met says we shouldn't say "woman"

68 replies

ResisterRex · 09/04/2022 07:47

There's a long interview in the Telegraph to promote her book. There's no share token option so only the sex/gender "what is a woman", and importance of language section is below but the interview does also cover her VAWG work and list she reads in Parliament each year.

It's hard to tell if she means we shouldn't say woman for women, and transwomen for transwomen. Or if this means TWAW.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/09/jess-phillips-no-trans-person-met-has-said-cant-say-woman/

"I ask Phillips what she makes of the endless debate within politics of what constitutes a woman – shortly after we meet, her boss, Keir Starmer, comes under pressure againn_ when he refuses to answer the question. Phillips, who is on compassionate leave when it happens, claims to have “missed that interview. To be honest I’ve not heard the Keir thing”.

In the past, she has said that she believes biological sex exists, “and we are discriminated against on the basis of our biological sex, without question.” She has also noted the “de-womanising of language” in regard to the Domestic Abuse Bill passed in summer 2020 that made no mention of women. “There are so many dissenting issues that are there to distract from the substantive,” she says now. “The substantive of women’s rights deeply matters to me. And not taking away the language of women, because I don’t want to – I like it, and I don’t know who’s demanding it. No trans person I’ve ever met has said that we shouldn’t say ‘woman’.”"

OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 09/04/2022 07:48

She does a lot of the disingenuous ‘not heard anything about that’ thing.

ResisterRex · 09/04/2022 07:51

We both started threads at the same time! Shall I ask for this to be deleted?

OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 09/04/2022 07:52

No, let more people see!

ResisterRex · 09/04/2022 07:52
Smile
OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/04/2022 08:06

If she acknowledged it, she'd have to address it. And explaining why Starmer repeatedly looks like an idiot for being unable to utter a scientific factual definition is not only embarrassing but calls into question his abilities as a leader.
If he's too scared to define a woman, how is he going to tackle Putin, China, organised crime, climate change and all the real frightening things out there.

lovelyweathertoday · 09/04/2022 08:39

What happened to speaking truth to power?

FOJN · 09/04/2022 08:46

In 2017 Jess tweeted in support of these 5 demands from WPUK, she described them as reasonable, she was immediately branded transphobic.

  1. Respectful and evidence-based discussion about the impact of the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act to be allowed to take place and for women’s voices to be heard.
  2. The principle of women-only spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended.
  3. A review of how the exemptions in the Equality Act which allow or single sex services or requirements that only a woman can apply for a job (such as in a domestic violence refuge) are being applied in practice.
  4. Government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women-only services and spaces.
  5. Government to consult on how self-declaration will impact upon data gathering – such as crime, employment, pay and health statistics – and monitoring of sex-based discrimination such as the gender pay gap.

Later she was interviewed by Pink News and taken to task over her tweet, she expressed regret for her lapse in judgement (the body language was excruciating to watch) and did not challenge the assertion that WPUK were a transphobic hate group. The interveiwer refused to name WPUK because they didn't want to give them publicity by which I think they meant signpost people to the WPUK website where they laid out their very reasonable position. The interveiwer was a TW.

But hey at least they're still allowing you use the word woman, Jess, you just forgot to mention it's conditional on you including males.

I think the word I'm looking for here is craven.

Lottapianos · 09/04/2022 08:49

'I think the word I'm looking for here is craven.'

You're right. Phillips talks a good game about taking no shit and speaking truth to power etc, but seems to fold like a deck of cards when she is actually challenged on anything

Liveliferun · 09/04/2022 08:52

She’s a coward I think, now is the safest time ever to speak out, for goodness sake even the PM has done so. Such a shame as she clearly does KNOW.

Abhannmor · 09/04/2022 09:17

Craven with the thought police. Shouty and overbearing with critics in the party.

ZaraSizeMedium · 09/04/2022 10:01

Phillips, who is on compassionate leave when it happens, claims to have “missed that interview. To be honest I’ve not heard the Keir thing”.

She’s a fucking liar.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 09/04/2022 10:11

Later she was interviewed by Pink News and taken to task over her tweet, she expressed regret for her lapse in judgement (the body language was excruciating to watch) and did not challenge the assertion that WPUK were a transphobic hate group. The interveiwer refused to name WPUK because they didn't want to give them publicity by which I think they meant signpost people to the WPUK website where they laid out their very reasonable position. The interveiwer was a TW.

But hey at least they're still allowing you use the word woman, Jess, you just forgot to mention it's conditional on you including males.

See Lifton's 8 Criteria for Thought Reform (all of the following quoted from the final link) because Jess is exhibiting them, just as she did in the Pink News interview in re: WPUK.

First we have the "Thought-terminating cliche"

The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed. These become the start and finish of any ideological analysis.

Then we have the 8 Criteria of Thought-Reform (a.k.a. Brainwashing)

1) Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.

2) Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.

3) Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.

4) Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.

5) Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

6) Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating cliches, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.

7) Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

8) Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also. (Lifton, 1989)

SO. Anyone else, at all, see the relevance of these ideas to what is going on with trans activism and our current political climate?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3377708-Thought-reform-and-the-psychology-of-totalism-parallels-with-our-current-debate

Floisme · 09/04/2022 10:14

If I recall correctly, Jess Phillips was part of the all-party committee that recommended self-ID, thereby arguably starting the whole current shit-show. I have never seen her even attempt to row back from that and until then, it will always be the first thing I think of when I hear her name.

It's a shame as I do applaud her for reading out the names of murdered women in Parliament every year.

Norma27 · 09/04/2022 10:25

Jess is my MP and I met with her once purely to talk about womens rights. (Those of you who followed me on twitter may know me as Dora before I was banned).
I’m not going to say I know what she thinks as I don’t think that right.
My take from meeting with her is that she doesn’t believe TWAW and definitely not in all circumstances. BUT she thinks we need to be nice and kind to these males and that they are very oppressed and in many cases should be treated as if they are women. There is one area where she told me she definitely believes in single SEX spaces once I told her and has (as far as I know) been talking to someone proactive in that area.
I really hope she speaks up soon for females.

BootsAndRoots · 09/04/2022 10:27

Whenever you get these debates it is typically people being offended on the behalf of others.

Online it is predominately men attacking women in the name of trans rights.
At the various trans rights protests there are unlikely to be many transsexual people there.
Stonewall is run by a lesbian who is intent on attacking all other lesbians and women in the name of trans rights.

tabbycatstripy · 09/04/2022 10:32

‘There is one area where she told me she definitely believes in single SEX spaces once I told her and has (as far as I know) been talking to someone proactive in that area.’

Is it refuges?

Norma27 · 09/04/2022 10:36

It wasn’t refuges, but I don’t think she said specifically either way. It was just after a really high profile case where she deleted a tweet about a woman who was murdered in a refuge, and she was very defensive so I backed off a bit from that.

zanahoria · 09/04/2022 10:38

She does a lot of good work but I find her a bit fake and her act tiresome. She is always going on about how posh everyone is at Parliament as if she were the first ever MP from a state school background. She also ran for leader declaring it was time for a woman to take charge of the party then backed Keir once she had dropped out.

tabbycatstripy · 09/04/2022 10:43

She’s untrustworthy. Why should we vote for someone who hides their opinion like this?

Norma27 · 09/04/2022 10:44

Actually I might as well say what it was. I was always a bit worried about backlash, but she needs to be honest, and she said no males should be in womens prisons. She hadn’t heard about Karen white at that point tho! Which I find difficult to believe.

Norma27 · 09/04/2022 10:50

Our Lib Dem councillor (Jess’s ward) knocked on the door and I asked him what a woman was. Surprisingly he didn’t follow the party line and agreed it is biological sex that matters. Jess has never knocked on my door, the old Lib Dem MP always did but he was awful.

StopStartStop · 09/04/2022 10:58

No time for her at all.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 09/04/2022 10:58

@BootsAndRoots

Whenever you get these debates it is typically people being offended on the behalf of others.

Online it is predominately men attacking women in the name of trans rights.
At the various trans rights protests there are unlikely to be many transsexual people there.
Stonewall is run by a lesbian who is intent on attacking all other lesbians and women in the name of trans rights.

Of course it's predominantly men abusing women. It doesn't matter what their gender id is, any diagnosis they may have or the size of their breasts - most of them don't like women saying no and start abusing them. Its a trait that lots of men have.
ResisterRex · 09/04/2022 11:15

Having read FOJN and Flo's posts in particular, I'm inclined to be angry about her reading out the list of murdered women every year. If she can't define us, she won't defend us if Labour ever got in. So what's the list for? Publicity?

OP posts:
Wrongkindofovercoat · 09/04/2022 11:29

It's a shame as I do applaud her for reading out the names of murdered women in Parliament every year

Isn't it a list of women murdered by men ?