Jimmy Savile - A British Horror Show

[NotAGirl]

So much that could, should, must be said about this documentary

Something that really struck me was how people who ignored what was in front of them were happy to be interviewed and still didn’t take any responsibility for not saying anything and how heartbreaking it was to see one of the victims even knowing how protected he was blame herself for not saying anything when she was a frightened child.

Sorry seen that it has already been mentioned above but was Leeds hospital - was just awful. That poor child.

@Vintagecreamandcottagepie

Andbthat evil effing lawyer who defended him despite knowing the truth.

Who are these who enable the monster and how do they get away with it?

That's a bit unfair on George Carman.

Carman did not 'defend' Savile from anything as Savile was never tried for any offence. Libel laws in the UK mean that if someone is going to print something about you, they better well be able to prove that they believe it to be true. This is the way it ought to be because it protects us all from having anything that anyone sees fit to print written about us whether it's true or not.

Savile was notoriously litigious, Carman represented him in no different a way to the way he represented dozens of other high profile people in similar circumstances. Carman did nothing that shielded Savile, he merely asserted that if people were going to make allegations, then they should be able to back those allegations up and prove their veracity. Carman himself was perfectly open with his suspicions about JS, but the law is such that 'suspicions' themselves are meaningless, and even if you are a creep then you are still entitled to legal representation. If not Carman, then some other highly paid legal bod would have taken the job themselves.

Did you catch the part about 'Savile would be obliged to sue'? In essence, if someone makes an allegation of that magnitude and explicitly names you, if you don't contest it you are tacitly admitting to the truth of it. Savile did nothing that every single one of us would not have done under the same circumstances if we had the resources, although granted, it's not every single one of us that is in fact a predatory offender.

It's not Carman's job to judge a person's character. He, and his colleagues, are merely there to ensure that the law is applied properly and correctly to their client.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Most of us wouldn't do what he did for moral reasons. Knowing full well he was a prolific pedophile hiding in plain sight, and working proactively to allow that to continue.

I won't engage any more on this subject, too much evil.

I wish all his victims as much peace as possible. It wasn't your fault.

[quote Cheekymaw]@veronicagoldberg

We're walking into a very similar (and potentially more far-reaching) situation by allowing men to identify into roles such as Brownie leaders with no questioning permitted.

We most certainly are sister , terrifying. And the rest....[/quote]
Absolutely right.

I don't have Netflix but these threads prompted me to watch the ITV and Channel 5 documentaries. They are sickening. What bothers me is his demeanor and how it reminds me of so many instances when I was a child/teenager and felt uncomfortable around older men. Friends of the family, teachers, priests, gym coaches...

The irony that Savile wrote the foreword to the booklet "Stranger Danger".

Just watched this. So many hints and questions left hanging. It’s very obvious that there are many more people involved than just JS, but they are still too well protected to name.

I suspect that many of the clips they showed were selected specifically because the people in them are up to their neck in depravity.

I was a child in the 80s and had no idea about sexual abuse. But I remember distinctly not liking him and finding him creepy as I would describe it now. I remember my parents shrugging and turning the channel over for me without complaint. I think what's most interesting about the programme is that it shows us what the country was like at the time. How accepting people were of everyday sexism. Talking to my parents they are quite frank about what they found acceptable in the office place back then. Mad Men would be a documentary basically.

@LadyCordeliaFitzgerald

I agree. And your post was very well worded.

I have watched some old seventies shows on Tv recently and can't believe how sexist they were. I watched them when they came out originally, but times have changed SO much. The depiction of the little woman at home, serving meals to her man, and with nothing better to do than go to the hairdresser or go out for lunch. The incredibly patronising, condescending way that men talk to women and treat them. It's really shocking.
Watching JS wield power over SS who could do nothing but squirm and smile was nauseating. Thank God times have changed. (Though not nearly enough).

It's just a terrifying thought that it was an open secret.so many people knew what he was about and he was constantly telling on himself.

I watched the Channel 5 documentary too. National Treasure?

These men wield so much power and their victims have none and nothing ever changes, and that's the most enraging part. It just makes me so angry.

I remember on the R Kelly documentary, he went to court because he'd made a recording of CSE, literally a video of him raping a child and the most degrading acts. One of the jurors admitted he found him not guilty because he saw his victim as "that type of girl". How sick is that?

As long as being seen as an acceptable *victim comes with conditions men like JS will continue to thrive.

*I say victim, I prefer survivor, but I'm not sure which is the best term to use.

@Vintagecreamandcottagepie

Andbthat evil effing lawyer who defended him despite knowing the truth.

Who are these who enable the monster and how do they get away with it?

George Carmen. Known in the profession as "Gorgeous George". I met him a twice times, once as a student, and once whilst working on a libel case as a very, very junior solicitor. Creepy and handsy.

This is a better documentary, I think, on Savile. Not sure when it was made or shown, but it popped up on youtube today. This is about the people who knew and were complicit.

[quote Vintagecreamandcottagepie]@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Most of us wouldn't do what he did for moral reasons. Knowing full well he was a prolific pedophile hiding in plain sight, and working proactively to allow that to continue.

I won't engage any more on this subject, too much evil.

I wish all his victims as much peace as possible. It wasn't your fault.[/quote]
It's unlikely Carman 'knew' anything for certain about Savile, after all, JS is not likely to go openly confessing to his behaviours for no reason whatsoever, rather Carman merely suspected that there was more to JS than initially met the eye, in pretty much the same way that any number of people who encountered Savile believed that he wasn't what he seemed.

If you want to blame anyone for enabling Savile, you would be better off looking at the people at the BBC who received first-hand accounts of his behaviours from victims and witnesses and did absolutely nothing about it, or the police officers who were informed and made little to no effort to investigate.

Again, 'most of us wouldn't do what he did for moral reasons' is not realistic. People are entitled to representation regardless of what anyone thinks of them, and absolute scumbags hire barristers all the time. If everyone took the decision to refuse to represent defendants or litigants on the basis that they might just be a bit of a wrong'un, then the judicial system would collapse immediately, because the right to representation is a fundamental principle. You are innocent until 'proven' guilty, and you have the right to demand someone making a claim about you produces sufficient grounds to show that they believe the claim to be true. Whether or not the litigant is or is not a scumbag is irrelevant, and it isn't a reflection on the people performing a role that is absolutely vital in justice.

Just been watching the Maxwell documentary. Very sinister. It appears Maxwell was involved with Epstein before his death and sort of palmed his daughter off on Epstein. Paedophilia, money , power and money laundering all seem to be connected among the rich and powerful.
Makes you wonder really about some of the conspiracy theories and whether they are as outrageous as they appear.

I think the paedo sex rings amongst the upper classes were a real thing, and it would not surprise me for a minute if some of Savile's establishment friends kept quiet because they knew Savile had the goods on them.

Has anybody seen the Netflix documentary, Tell Me Who I Am? It's extraordinary and very moving, and another insight into the depravity of some in the seemingly respectable establishment.

@ATeamAmy

I think the paedo sex rings amongst the upper classes were a real thing, and it would not surprise me for a minute if some of Savile's establishment friends kept quiet because they knew Savile had the goods on them.

Has anybody seen the Netflix documentary, Tell Me Who I Am? It's extraordinary and very moving, and another insight into the depravity of some in the seemingly respectable establishment.

About the twins? Utterly bizarre !

@Deliriumoftheendless

I really felt for Selina Scott, with his grotesque behaviour and Bough just smiling away.

I remember when it all came out there were people saying “oh we all knew what Jimmy was like...” yet you all kept quiet.

(I played the Jerry Sadowitz Savile sketch to a friend the other day- he was shocked that no one else was saying anything).

We will continue to see predators like this. Bottom line is there’s not enough concern for abused children from those in power. (I wonder why not? Hmmm)

The IIICSA spent around 2 years interviewing adults who had been sexually abused by someone (or some people as opposed to a lone predator) to see what could be learned. It was also known as the truth project and police forces had their own 'operation' name (it was a operation hydrant where I live.

It was harrowing to go through. I went through it and gave the IIICSA quite a few names, did all of the police interviews etc. They In particular there was one man the police couldn't find any evidence of. I did a very quick Google search, in front of these police officers, and found where he lives, works, plays darts every week and their reply was shocking... They said "well he's not committed a crume;he's not on the PND"!!! I was reporting crimes ffs - and they wonder why women don't come forward?

interviewing adults who had been sexually abused by someone (or some people as opposed to a lone predator) to see what could be learned

Sorry, I meant to put this was regarding people in a position of power.