Boris Johnson on Sky

[tabbycatstripy]

Johnson “sad” about the reaction from LGBT groups, says he’s 100% committed to a ban on gay conversion therapy, but there complexities and sensitivities about the area of gender, and he thinks there are things that need to be worked out.

Determined to tackle prejudice.

Re. trans conversion therapy, it wasn’t something he thought he would have to consider in great detail. These are novel concepts. He doesn’t think it’s reasonable for kids to be deemed Gillick competent in trans treatments. He doesn’t think males should be competing in female sports. Women should have spaces which are dedicated to women.

That’s as far as his thinking has developed, and if it puts him in conflict with others, he wants to work it out. Is sympathetic to transitioners. But these are complex issues and it takes thought to get it right.

Starmer is telling a bigger lie by saying that men can be women.

All politicians lie, we know that. What matters is the underlying ideology. Tory ideology is fairly straightforward - I don't agree wtih most of it, but it's largely transparent. Labour's ideology ... has got twisted. Very, very twisted. To the point they are mouthing absurdities.

Any party willing to mouth absurdities, to say that rapists should be given priority over women prisoners, to say that women can't call themselves women, etc, is on very dangerous ground imo, because they're operating on faith alone, divorced from any practical realities, and are demonstrably willing to say anything, ignore absolutely anything, in service to a garbled, waffly ideology.

@Datun

If it's a vote winner and labour don't like it, then they can change their mind tout suite, cant they.

If they think most people agree with Boris, because if not it wouldn't be a vote winner, then what the fuck are they doing disagreeing?

They can try and wrench the wheel around on that speeding tanker if they want. Good luck with that. They'd have to separate themselves from a lot of useful rich donors very invested in destroying women's rights and safeguarding, and from now a party that mostly consists of the extremist anti-women activism faction.

But I wouldn't believe a word out of Starmer's mouth or anyone else in that party now. Think of the 'webchats' (hollow laugh) here on MN with the Labour Party Leader candidates? Four car crashes. Three women openly shouting down with women's rights in favour of men's rights and freedoms and feelings, fuck safeguarding... and Starmer just refusing to say anything. There's a saying up north: that one can make his mouth say anything.

Thank you Boris although, of course, I'm not 100% sure that you are telling the truth and will commit to what you say
Still, it is far better than what I'm hearing from Labour
It is scary to think what would happen if Labour were voted in

Relevant

@DomesticatedZombie

Starmer is telling a bigger lie by saying that men can be women.

All politicians lie, we know that. What matters is the underlying ideology. Tory ideology is fairly straightforward - I don't agree wtih most of it, but it's largely transparent. Labour's ideology ... has got twisted. Very, very twisted. To the point they are mouthing absurdities.

Any party willing to mouth absurdities, to say that rapists should be given priority over women prisoners, to say that women can't call themselves women, etc, is on very dangerous ground imo, because they're operating on faith alone, divorced from any practical realities, and are demonstrably willing to say anything, ignore absolutely anything, in service to a garbled, waffly ideology.

Absolutely agree. It really is absurd what the labour and other centre left parties have become.

In my more imaginative moments I've wondered if they've gradually been infiltrated by bad actors intend of dividing them by sowing the seeds of identity politics/gender ideology....I'm remembering GBH from the 1990's and how I didn't see it coming when the Labour Party fixer turned out to be a right wing agitator all along.....

and then I remember, no that would take too much organisation and long-sightedness on all sides ;)

"Well, no one can guarantee that he's not lying.

But Starmer is telling a bigger lie by saying that men can be women.

What is required here is that Starmer shows an interest in protecting the safeguarding of women and girls.

Until he does that then women have a safer bet voting Tory than Labour.

And that is something I never thought I'd say."

Exactly bang on.
What's even worse is that he's spouting the TRA drivel with a straight
face looking "profoundly concerned" about the potential hurt and harm caused to the trans community and their activists.
Remember?
For years now, we've been told - no, INSTRUCTED - that even having a debate on these issues is "harmful", "dangerous", tantamount to "erasing" trans lives. It's an act of violence. In and of itself.
By having a debate we're putting trans physical existence at risk.
I fucking remember. And not going to forget any time soon.
If, in this country, we cannot have a normal, public conversation
about the most basic facts of our lives - without being branded fascists and the rest - how the fuck are we going to touch on even more complex and contentious issues?
And how it came about that now in this lovely country we, as the public, need a politicians' permission to have a debate with the list of topics approved for debate?
How the fuck has this happened?
The Overton window needs to be smashed here and pronto.
Deer Keir is too nice, too petrified and intellectually spent to help
with that. So is the rest of the Labour sheep. Brainless herd of deers
caught in the headlights of public derision.
Voted for the lot all my life.

Never again.
They need to be examined thoroughly by some specialists panel.
Not sure exactly which one yet.

mobile.twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1511704165201977345

It looks like they are now positioning themselves to go for Labour’s jugular over this.

Good. The sooner it implodes, the sooner I can hope for a sane left leaning party to vote for.

Johnson might be lying but at least, on this matter, the words coming out of his mouth are making sense unlike anyone from any of the other political parties. For me, that's a win.

I'm extremely sceptical about politics, I believe there isn't a huge difference between the parties as the strings are pulled behind the scenes by business interests regardless of who's in power. However, I have a vote and there's clear water emerging between the parties on this one issue and I'm inclined to use my vote to save my rights and those of my daughter. I don't really care what other people think and, given that my vote is private, they won't know anyway.

The left have shown themselves to be thoughtless intolerant ideologues and I've got no interest in supporting their nonsense. I'm so sick of apparently worthy men telling me what to think about my rights. Twats.

@MadnessOfHamsters

mobile.twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1511704165201977345

It looks like they are now positioning themselves to go for Labour’s jugular over this.

Good. The sooner it implodes, the sooner I can hope for a sane left leaning party to vote for.

Raab has a v slim majority over the LDs IIRC, which may indicate local strength of feeling about this issue.

@MadnessOfHamsters

mobile.twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1511704165201977345

It looks like they are now positioning themselves to go for Labour’s jugular over this.

Good. The sooner it implodes, the sooner I can hope for a sane left leaning party to vote for.

Good. it's about time.

I think the Conservatives are being very politically savvy about this issue. They realise that (unfortunately) not everyone cares about women's rights - which largely up until this point the whole trans/women's penis thing has been painted as BUT nearly everyone cares about their children and safe-guarding issues.

Good. Like Raab, like Johnson, as a parent I am incredibly concerned at the idea that there might be medical professionals, charity ideologues, teachers or social workers trying to persuade my kids that it’s a good idea to take powerful drugs that will make irreversible changes to their bodies. I don’t want to prevent this for the purposes of control of my children, but because I would lay down my life for them. There are dangerous adults in the world. I’m not one of them. I just love my kids.

If Starmer came out and said we must not sacrifice women's safety, dignity and fairness. Yes, there is more we can do to ensure safe third spaces for trans people but not at the expense of safe spaces for biological women. We will not allow the continued degradation of life changing biological events for women by calling them "birthing bodies, menstruators, cervix havers etc etc". We will protect women's sport. We will oppose opening roles designated for women to people who are not biological women.
We have work to do to make life more comfortable for trans people but that is separate to the work we need to do to make life better for women.

Then'll vote Labour again.

@tabbycatstripy

Rayner not happy at all. She calls Johnson “a liability”.

Rayner has not got a clue and Labour remain unelectable for a long time. It was 17 years in the 1980s...history is repeating.

I'm so annoyed that the Labour Party has refused to listen and understand what people really want on both occasions and basically refusing to state the the obvious. The Tories will come and sweep this opportunity and they will win the next election. Even if Starmer makes a u turn at this point, I will never trust them on this. I wish we really had a opposition party that really had a backbone to challenge the tories, instead, they are fiddling with their penises shooting themselves in the foot with all this nonsense.

@stealthninjamum

I have such mixed feelings about this. Dd1, is a bright young teen with autism, yet has been sucked into this. She has at least five or six trans friends and she happily told me about one whose parents had agreed to let them try medication to transition. I am a bigot because I suggested the ‘boy’ probably needs love and support from professionals before puberty blockers. Dd1 feels I am just a bigot and this whole issue is driving a wedge between us.

So I am torn, if I have to vote Boris to stop dd1s friends from transitioning before they are old enough to understand the consequences then I’m afraid I will.

Yep the instinct to protect the vulnerable i.e. kids should overcome anything. All you are sensibly doing is supporting a conservative to stop an extreme position.

@mynameisnotkate

I’m torn between being grateful that the PM is saying this, and worried that the association with a lying, incompetent Tory will reinforce the idea that this is bad in the minds of people who are on the fence and don’t think much. I wish there was a broader range of political figures saying stuff like this. To some extent it adds fuel to the ‘only right wing bigots think this’ nonsense.

Exactly my view on this.

I'm frequently seeing blue tick names, sharing and posting stuff saying that all of this is coming from the far right, and evangelists, when in my case, that's absolutely not true.

I can’t believe I’m going to have to vote tory.

Voting for Starmer - there's no doubt. My worst fears of dismantling all women's rights and safeguarding will all come true.

Brilliant, go Boris.

This issue is a hill I would die on, and he has my vote in the local elections in May.

Respect my sex if you want my X.

I feel this throws down the gauntlet for Keir Starmer to make a similar clear statement. It’s interesting that BJ is known for his waffle yet it’s the Labour politicians doing their best Dead Ringers-style impression of him in their answers and he comes out with a sincere (sounding), respectful yet unequivocal statement.

The Tories are so bad, Starmer should have been laughing all the way to number 10 in the next general election.
Don't blame women for his failure to benefit from Tory failures, his insistence on actively not listening to women and vilifying any labour women raising this.

Starmer responded. He said there should be a ban on all forms of conversion therapy and Johnson is trying to avert attention from the cost of living.

Nothing on childhood transition. From a man who wants to lead the country. Pathetic.

@tabbycatstripy

Starmer responded. He said there should be a ban on all forms of conversion therapy and Johnson is trying to avert attention from the cost of living.

Nothing on childhood transition. From a man who wants to lead the country. Pathetic.

He’s hopeless.

Wonder how much he’s being kicked to touch by his party members

@tabbycatstripy

Starmer responded. He said there should be a ban on all forms of conversion therapy and Johnson is trying to avert attention from the cost of living.

Nothing on childhood transition. From a man who wants to lead the country. Pathetic.

Not sure what their internal surveys tell them, but I still fear that most people are not that aware of the issues we discuss here and other issues might be more salient for the next elections.

I obviously hope that we are witnessing an actual waking-up here about the rapidly reducing women's rights, but the pessimist in me (identity?) suspects that there will be no real change until after many similar rounds, possibly when the detransitioners start suing health care providers in very large numbers.

This is down to the overreach of TRAs. The reaction to not including trans in the conversion ban, and the refusal to attend the Safe to be Me conference was an own goal, as was the outrage at the ECHR's guidance, and trying to involve the UN in sanctioning them.
Really the only option was for BJ to show a spine and stand up to them. Who runs the country - lobby groups or the government?

How can anyone object to the proper scrutiny of laws? Therein lies KS problem, all he's done is cave in to lobby groups.