Sajid Javid defends LGB ban on conversion therapy...

[tabbycatstripy]

On Sky News this morning talking about the Cass Review. Says it’s right that when a young person presents with gender dysphoria, it is right that medical professionals should be able to explore the causes. Points to the possibility of their distress being related to bullying or sexual abuse rather than being evidence of gender incongruence.

Sounds a bit nervous but good for him. This is how we protect children, by getting the issues out in the open, by involving the whole of society instead of a small group of motivated adults.

Brian Paddick (!) responds under the Sky news tweet, saying “conversion therapy IS abuse and bullying”.

Respect to Javid for investing his political capital in this. Liking him more and more.

Wow, has there been an outbreak of common sense somewhere?

Or more likely they've spotted women are a bit cross with them and are jumping on our bandwagon for a change!

Sajid Javid needs to reaffirm the commitment to safeguarding through the whole NHS.

It's compulsory for NHS staff at every level as well as people who provide services to the NHS to have to go through safeguarding training (amongst other compulsory modules). Yet, the NHS culture does not support the implementation of that safeguarding nor appropriate action when it's observed or even when clinicians are forbidden to abide by it (as in this fraught and contentious area).

I think it’s possible that even politicians (maybe even eventually labour leadership) can genuinely have a moment of “bloody hell, now I get it” when they actually pay attention and listen to the evidence and arguments being made. As so many people have and are. The only reason it’s taking so long is because the “doubts about gender ideology = bigotry and transphobia” spin has been so successfully pushed by bodies that have been invited in as experts to tell politicians what to think.

It’s like watching the slowest drop,of a penny in history.

Yes, it’s a really difficult area. Proper engagement is deliberately flummoxed by claims of bigotry.

But that’s over now. No sensible politician who understands what is going on will backtrack now.

There needs to be a clear definition of what exactly conversion therapy is for transgender people. Discussing the reasons behind feelings shouldn't be. Telling someone its wrong and going to hell etc is a completely different matter.

Kay Burley should also be challenged on her misleading tweet that Javid says ‘conversion therapy should be legal’ (for ‘trans kids’). He didn’t say that at all. He said the issue needs a more sensitive approach.

‘There needs to be a clear definition of what exactly conversion therapy is for transgender people.’

Nobody who wanted the ban was prepared to moot one. That was deliberate. What they wanted was an incredibly vague, broad term “conversion practices” to be inserted into law. They then wanted to do what they have been doing for years, and engineer policy around something that was never properly defined. This law would have been used by social workers to target non-affirming parents. It would have been used to direct teachers. It would have been used to direct therapists.

Is there a legal definition of conversion therapy? I think that people assume
It’s like exorcism or they lock kids in a dark room and refuse to let them out until they ‘agree’.

Maybe it needs a name change? Therapy. Talking therapy. Conversion doesn’t give the right tone.

No, the consultation didn’t contain a proper definition. It spoke broadly about ‘an attempt to change your sexual orientation or gender identity’.

An attempt by whom? Involving what? What is gender identity?

No-one knows.

Well done Javid. I think the senior Tories have learned from Labour's ongoing train wreck and done a bit of training on sex and gender. They're coming over well on this at the moment (it's shaking my lifelong never vote Tory resolution)

It’s like watching the slowest drop,of a penny in history.

Tell me about it.

Glad to hear people talking sense, though, however slowly & hesitantly they start to do so.

And replying to Kitten, the 'research' reports for the conversion therapy bill were seriously bad (done by some guy at Coventry University whose name I forget). These defined any counselling for trans people as conversion therapy even when open ended.

Seriously depressed that I once voted for Paddick in the London mayoral elections.

Javid must be a leadership contender once the backroom Tories dethrone Johnson?

Would be good if lots of us could write to our MPs to back up Javid’s position because he’ll be under massive pressure now the government’s flagship ‘LGBT+‘ conference has just been cancelled over it.

This cancellation has come with a resignation in government and big loss of face for the government’s credentials. It’s also probably strengthened the realignment of the boycotting LGB groups with the T groups and increased perception of LGBTQ+ issues all being exactly the same, over this perceived government failure. None of this is at all good.

I’m going to write to my MP in support of the idea that children who have significant distress focused on gender identity issues need careful non-politicised professional support, which is NOT ‘conversion therapy’. It’s about professionals being medically and psychologically responsible and supporting children’s trauma and loss and anxiety or issues connected to their neurodiversity in the most appropriate evidence based ways. Not doing medicine via sloganeering or peer pressure.

Lots of MPs have no understanding that LBG and T issues are different. They just understand that LGB conversion therapy (often religiously based) does exist and is wrong. T conversion would be wrong too- but that’s NOT what evidence-based age-appropriate psychological support is. That’s the misinformation that is being pushed by the transactivist lobby around this. Because they need children to validate an adult political cause.

LGB and T issues are often not the same and especially not on this issue. Also worth saying that there’s a vested interest in making these issues appear the same which is connected to funding for charities and campaign groups, political alignment and all sorts of complex issues. None of that reflects the reality for young people suffering with gender identity distress, the majority of whom say they are same-sex attracted. The child’s needs should be paramount. First rule of safeguarding.

It’s well known that some homophobic parents find it easier to accept a transgender child than a lesbian or gay child, because they believe humans can be born in the wrong body. And this is a subjective belief like any other religious belief with no evidence to back it up whatsoever, unless you believe in souls.
These kids are under immense pressure already and what’s needed definitely isn't an affirmative approach given the permanent, invasive and physically harmful nature of medical transition that they could be pushed towards, by professionals taking affirmation approaches. Detransitioners like Keira Bell should also be listened to very carefully.

Proper CAMHS funding is what’s very urgently needed here. That’s what I’m going to ask my MP to campaign for.

Details here lgballiance.org.uk/2022/01/21/conversion-therapy-update/

Safe To Be Me' LGBT conference cancelled after boycott
By Josh Parry, LGBT producer & Lauren Moss, LGBT correspondent
BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61002448

About writing to MPs - I agree and I think the thread had a good way of viewing he issue:

So UK LGBTQ+ groups prioritise unquestioning transitioning of teenagers in the UK over LGBTQ+ people being executed, imprisoned, force transitioned, in other countries? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4523021-So-UK-LGBTQ-groups-prioritise-unquestioning-transitioning-of-teenagers-in-the-UK-over-LGBTQ-people-being-executed-imprisoned-force-transitioned-in-other-countries

Which is that in the actions of these 100+ groups (I thought this was a tiny and massively underfunded sector 🤔), will mean delays in advancing rights for same-sex attracted people elsewhere.

Nancy Kelley: ‘How can we move too fast in building robust human rights frameworks and cultures of inclusion??’

Exactly like that, Nancy. By conflating ‘human rights’ with ‘inclusion’, and forgetting that you can’t make a system ‘robust’ unless you give careful, meticulous attention to the needs of every person who has to live under it. Not just the ones whose needs you want to privilege.