Telegraph covers NHS staff threatening to bin EHRC guidance

[ChristinaXYZ]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/05/nhs-equality-chief-leads-mutiny-against-transphobic-watchdog/ for the full piece. some key elements below. I think the two journalists have done a really good job - covered all the bases.

"....Tara Hewitt, the group head of equality, diversity and inclusion at Northern Care Alliance NHS Group, described the guidance as “transphobic” and said that NHS bosses should put it in the “bin”.

Her calls for NHS leaders to be told to “ignore” the legal opinion of the UK’s human rights body was backed by Kathryn Thomson, the chief executive of Liverpool Women's NHS Foundation Trust, and Aaron Cummins, the chief executive at University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay NHS Foundation Trust....

"Legal experts warned on Tuesday that NHS trusts not following the watchdog's advice on the law “could well come unstuck”.

Amanda Jones, a barrister specialising in gender law at Great James Street chambers, added that it was “unwise publicly to publish your refusal to engage with the EHRC’s guidance”.

....After its long-awaited clarification was published, the Trans NHS Staff Network put out a message on social media urging “all NHS Equality Teams to ignore this transphobic and hostile guidance from EHRC that is likely to be found unlawful at judicial review and continue to write and follow trans inclusive policies and guidance”...

...All NHS trusts have a duty to comply with the Equality Act. The EHRC's guidance, published on Monday, stated that service providers can “limit access to their service for trans people” if it “is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim”. This “could be for reasons of privacy, decency, to prevent trauma or to ensure health and safety”.

Ms Jones added that “if you don’t follow the guidance and you come before a court, the court is going to want some serious explanation of why you’re not following it”, she said.

Estelle Carmichael, the deputy chief of people for Northern Care Alliance NHS Foundation Trust which employs Ms Hewitt, said: “As a responsible health care provider and employer, our approach is to focus on treating all of our colleagues and patients according to their individual needs.

“We will continue to advise our staff to follow the principles and responsibilities of the Equality Act 2010, as set out in our local equality, diversity and inclusion policies and procedures. The manager who made these comments is a well-known equality advocate and has expressed a personal opinion on this matter.”

Morecambe Bay declined to comment whilst Liverpool Women's NHS Trust did not respond when approached by this newspaper."

Also covered in the Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10690199/NHS-mutiny-AGAINST-watchdog-ruling-allows-trans-patients-barred-single-sex-wards.html

I will never cease to be amazed that a national body whose sole existence is rooted firmly in biology and scientific research has also been sold gender ideology hook line and sinker.
Everything the NHS does should be evidence based and proveable. If a psychiatrist is faced with a patient who truly believes they are a different creature, such as a dog, that psychiatrist doesn’t affirm their identity as a dog, they look at ways of ensuring the patient gets back to reality and sees that they are, in fact, a human. The psychiatrist doesn’t give them a collar and lead, reattach their ears to the top of their head and feed them dog bones!
So how come the whole TWAW issue has got its grip firmly in the NHS? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

“Unwise publicly to publish your refusal”

Is that lawyer speaking for ‘you fucking idiot’

I continue to be equally horrified and amazed that ppl in positions of power and responsibility like an NHS trust CEO believe that a man is a woman because he says he is

I think that's putting an obligation in the chair of the board to have that public statement recorded as a conflict of interest in any board minutes where policy is reviewed. If the board cant trust that a member or a senior employee will follow the law and internal policy based on that its likely cheaper in the long term to remove them from their post.

Policy for mixed sex wards should be changed. Having to take account of sex as a PC for a paitent could be accomadated by private rooms etc. Training on how to deal with a paitent, professionally as a person would not need to change.
The situation with staff is more complex as when there was a paitent v employee rights conflict management were signing off policy which put their obligation as an employer before their obligations to paitents.

I would suggest that public statements of intent to fail to adhere to legislation which could potentially cost a taxpayer funded service money should result in personal liability and cancellation of cover for officers liability insurance. Putting their personal pennies in the pot for any Court case would sharpen a lot of policy makers thinking.

I dont care if they personally think that a man is a woman, they need to work within the legal framework or leave their position of authority.

Her calls for NHS leaders to be told to “ignore” the legal opinion of the UK’s human rights body was backed by Kathryn Thomson, the chief executive of Liverpool Women's NHS Foundation Trust, and Aaron Cummins, the chief executive at University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay NHS Foundation Trust....

This Morecambe Bay Trust? Where mothers and babies died over a number of years because of the seriously dysfunctional nature of the maternity service at Furness General Hospital (FGH)

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/408480/47487_MBI_Accessible_v0.1.pdf

@Soontobe60

I will never cease to be amazed that a national body whose sole existence is rooted firmly in biology and scientific research has also been sold gender ideology hook line and sinker. Everything the NHS does should be evidence based and proveable. If a psychiatrist is faced with a patient who truly believes they are a different creature, such as a dog, that psychiatrist doesn’t affirm their identity as a dog, they look at ways of ensuring the patient gets back to reality and sees that they are, in fact, a human. The psychiatrist doesn’t give them a collar and lead, reattach their ears to the top of their head and feed them dog bones! So how come the whole TWAW issue has got its grip firmly in the NHS? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Agree with you wholeheartedly

Asmina Chowdhury, Lead for Diversity, Inclusion, & Patient Public Engagement at South East Coast Ambulance Service NHS Foundation Trust said: 'No equality lead worth their salt should be advising exclusion of our #trans colleagues.'

None of them is worth their salt. This whole industry has been set up to drive an unlawful agenda and should be recognised as the useless, expensive protest movement it is. And dismantled.

Kendodd
Unless it's about trans staff and refusing treatment to women who don't want trans women examining them?

This is why rewording biology "works".
Unless it's about male staff and refusing treatment to women who don't want male staff examining them?
It goes down to hiring pratices of providing appropiate levels of staffing for the position.
But also training that consent cant be obtained by deception.

There was a creepy TRA account on twitter claiming to be a ex-nurse and that paitents had no right to request a female/male sex HCP. Patients have the right. But the hospital don't have to accommodate if ask. What the hospital cant do is provide a member of the opposite sex and claim that the staff member is of the requested sex. The TRA was claiming the hospital could do that.
The hospitals issue is that female, John, must refuse to treat if a male has been requested. If John ignores the lack of consent the hospital has a staff problem.

There was a Met Police case in 1999(?) where policy had to be written for a beat officer. The crux of the issue was consent to search which without consent is in reality a lawful assault. Before arrest and after anything from turning out pockets to a strip search in the cells (or in the case of teen girls in their school) had to be considered.

If the NHS staff think they are outside the law how did that go down with the TRA in the police.

Has anyone seen TRA from the prisons service?

IvyTwines
Handy for the lawyers that these individuals choose to publicise their deliberate rejection of safety guidelines.

Indeed. Handy in any case at all. If the policy maker is publically ignoring one law how can they prove they are only ignoring one law...

As a woman if I received intimate medical treatment from a trans woman who had not disclosed they were trans I might well feel assaulted. My consent would have been given on the understanding that they were biologically female. People should not lie and deceive to gain consent. I’d have thought in such a case if the woman found out she’d have a good legal case against the hospital and possibly a criminal case against the individual.

@ChristinaXYZ

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/05/nhs-equality-chief-leads-mutiny-against-transphobic-watchdog/ for the full piece. some key elements below. I think the two journalists have done a really good job - covered all the bases.

"....Tara Hewitt, the group head of equality, diversity and inclusion at Northern Care Alliance NHS Group, described the guidance as “transphobic” and said that NHS bosses should put it in the “bin”.

Her calls for NHS leaders to be told to “ignore” the legal opinion of the UK’s human rights body was backed by Kathryn Thomson, the chief executive of Liverpool Women's NHS Foundation Trust, and Aaron Cummins, the chief executive at University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay NHS Foundation Trust....

"Legal experts warned on Tuesday that NHS trusts not following the watchdog's advice on the law “could well come unstuck”.

Amanda Jones, a barrister specialising in gender law at Great James Street chambers, added that it was “unwise publicly to publish your refusal to engage with the EHRC’s guidance”.

....After its long-awaited clarification was published, the Trans NHS Staff Network put out a message on social media urging “all NHS Equality Teams to ignore this transphobic and hostile guidance from EHRC that is likely to be found unlawful at judicial review and continue to write and follow trans inclusive policies and guidance”...

...All NHS trusts have a duty to comply with the Equality Act. The EHRC's guidance, published on Monday, stated that service providers can “limit access to their service for trans people” if it “is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim”. This “could be for reasons of privacy, decency, to prevent trauma or to ensure health and safety”.

Ms Jones added that “if you don’t follow the guidance and you come before a court, the court is going to want some serious explanation of why you’re not following it”, she said.

Estelle Carmichael, the deputy chief of people for Northern Care Alliance NHS Foundation Trust which employs Ms Hewitt, said: “As a responsible health care provider and employer, our approach is to focus on treating all of our colleagues and patients according to their individual needs.

“We will continue to advise our staff to follow the principles and responsibilities of the Equality Act 2010, as set out in our local equality, diversity and inclusion policies and procedures. The manager who made these comments is a well-known equality advocate and has expressed a personal opinion on this matter.”

Morecambe Bay declined to comment whilst Liverpool Women's NHS Trust did not respond when approached by this newspaper."

One might want to check the legal effect of not following the 2010 Statutory Code as opposed to not following the latest ‘guidance’ which is both non-statutory and inconsistent with the statutory code. Declaring that you intend to follow the latest ‘guidance’ where it is inconsistent in fact bears the legal risk. Do check it out.

Surely if the NHS ignored this and another poor woman was assaulted or raped on a ward, that woman could not only sue civilly but through criminal court, as it would be deliberate breaking of the law.

But tha statutory code also offers exemptions @RobinMoiraWhite. And do please tell us why you are so invested in making all spaces mixed sex. What would be your advice to a transman who was raped while on a male ward or in a male prison? You don’t seem very concerned that ignoring these exceptions would put transmen in danger, or do they not matter as they’re female?

I think that's putting an obligation in the chair of the board to have that public statement recorded as a conflict of interest in any board minutes where policy is reviewed. If the board cant trust that a member or a senior employee will follow the law and internal policy based on that its likely cheaper in the long term to remove them from their post.
…
The situation with staff is more complex as when there was a [patient] v employee rights conflict management were signing off policy which put their obligation as an employer before their obligations to [patients].

I would suggest that public statements of intent to fail to adhere to legislation which could potentially cost a taxpayer funded service money should result in personal liability and cancellation of cover for officers liability insurance. Putting their personal pennies in the pot for any Court case would sharpen a lot of policy makers thinking.

I had to repeat all of this because I agree with it so strongly. The NHS has implemented a culture that supports the gaslighting of patients and the substitution of employee preferences against the best interests of patients. Despite the 6 values of the NHS Constitution. These values are that must run through every NHS employee from estates to clinical and AHP to board members and they're enforced during recruitment and in performance evaluation.

There are six values that all staff – everyone from porters, physiotherapists, nurses, paramedics and gardeners to secretaries, consultants, healthcare scientists and phlebotomists – are expected to demonstrate:

working together for patients Patients come first in everything we do

respect and dignity We value every person – whether patient, their families or carers, or staff – as an individual, respect their aspirations and commitments in life, and seek to understand their priorities, needs, abilities and limits

commitment to quality of care We earn the trust placed in us by insisting on quality and striving to get the basics of quality of care – safety, effectiveness and patient experience right every time

compassion We ensure that compassion is central to the care we provide and respond with humanity and kindness to each person’s pain, distress, anxiety or need

improving lives We strive to improve health and wellbeing and people’s experiences of the NHS

everyone counts We maximise our resources for the benefit of the whole community, and make sure nobody is excluded, discriminated against or left behind

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-constitution

These values and Nolan Principles have been allowed to be absent in plain sight.

www.good-governance.org.uk/publications/insights/the-nolan-principles

Everytime Robin turns up to wag a patronising finger at us I think happily of Alison’s case against stonewall and the return of Ben Cooper

Liverpool Women's Hospital, though. Ffs.

You'd think they'd be driven by sex, at least..A hospital dedicated to women giving birth, obstetric issues, gynecological problems and full of women from every faith (and none) who want single-sex wards and a reasonable expectation of majority female carers.

Supporting trans staff does not mean ignoring EHRC guidance: reasonable measures and balancing of rights must be possible, otherwise there is no compromise and in a Women's Hospital Women's rights should be prioritised.

Is Ben Cooper representing Alison? In that case the stonewall lawyers better bring all their games not just their A game.

@Helleofabore

That is like a Stuart McKenna from the NHS trust covering Tameside and Glossop that Dr Emma Hilton had some dialogue with yesterday. He has protected his tweets. He is the HR person for that trust and publicly announced on Twitter that he would be telling people to disregard the guidance IIRC.

That is surprising.

Tara talks here about trans healthcare. Around 4.15 Tara discusses sexual fetishes for underwear.

If a woman can request a female doctor, then surely they can request a non-trans female doctor too.

As a woman if I received intimate medical treatment from a trans woman who had not disclosed they were trans I might well feel assaulted. My consent would have been given on the understanding that they were biologically female.

I think it highly unlikely you wouldn't know they were trans anyway. So few trans women pass, so unless you were blind and deaf (as some women are) you would know. And I have known A LOT of trans women in my time.

@Crcohetmonster

Is Ben Cooper representing Alison? In that case the stonewall lawyers better bring all their games not just their A game.

Ben Cooper alongside Peter Daly among others.

Liverpool Women's Hospital, though. Ffs.

Seriously, would a trans woman even need treatment there? Breast cancer maybe?

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Everytime Robin turns up to wag a patronising finger at us I think happily of Alison’s case against stonewall and the return of Ben Cooper

Many crossed fingers that the judge of the Employment Tribunal recognises the importance of this to so many of us and allows public access to online streaming.

The Guidance is perfectly reasonable. It suggests that in certain circumstances exceptions are made.
To say that is transphobic is curious. It suggests that in any circumstances where rights conflict, a trans persons needs or wants should always come first. Many women are saying no to that. That's why it's a conflict of rights. One doesn't trump the other automatically.

I don't think anyone's being trans or not-trans comes into it. I'd be fine with a female who considered themselves trans, nb, etc. As always, it's the sex of the person that is the crucial factor.

It's not complicated.
We all have a sex. It's debatable as to how many people have a gender identity.

@tabbycatstripy

Asmina Chowdhury, Lead for Diversity, Inclusion, & Patient Public Engagement at South East Coast Ambulance Service NHS Foundation Trust said: 'No equality lead worth their salt should be advising exclusion of our #trans colleagues.'

None of them is worth their salt. This whole industry has been set up to drive an unlawful agenda and should be recognised as the useless, expensive protest movement it is. And dismantled.

Well that's interesting. I was wondering why they were talking about trans colleagues, when I'd assumed it was about single sex wards. But as a previous poster said, it seems that what Tara Hewitt and co are really interested in is stopping women objecting to being examined by "trans colleagues".