Do people who use they/them pronouns refer to themselves as 'we'?

[DoubleYouOhEmAyEn]

Just a thought. Can't get my head around they/them pronouns. My brain won't compute that is isn't plural. Or is there a plural aspect? Two spirit etc. And has anyone come across people referring to themselves as 'we'?

I heard recently about someone who had ‘we’ in their pronouns.

I very much doubt it. Why would they? The purpose of using 'they/them' is not to use the plural, but to avoid stating sex, and 'I' does not state sex, so there's no need to avoid it.

I'm very much against the whole gender-woo stuff, but I find it baffling that people can be so confused by the they/plural/singular usage, when it has historically been commonplace to use 'they' to refer to a person of unknown sex (e.g. 'If a customer wishes to make a complaint, they should contact the following number' etc).

‘ I'm very much against the whole gender-woo stuff, but I find it baffling that people can be so confused by the they/plural/singular usage, when it has historically been commonplace to use 'they' to refer to a person of unknown sex (e.g. 'If a customer wishes to make a complaint, they should contact the following number' etc).’

My issue with it is that I do know their sex. So I’ve just used ‘their’ very happily in the sentence above, since I’m talking hypothetically. If a man tells me he wants me to use ‘they’ rather than ‘he’, he’s asking me to pretend I don’t know his sex.

Everyone I have met who uses they/them pronouns considers themselves to be singular rather than plural. The OED says that the singular "they" pronoun has been in use since 1375 public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

They has been accepted singular pronoun for a long time when the pronouns aren't specified.

for example find something without an obvious owner

They left their laptop. I'll see if I can give it back to them.

Yes, I use the singular they. Only when I choose to, though.

@Fairislefandango

I very much doubt it. Why would they? The purpose of using 'they/them' is not to use the plural, but to avoid stating sex, and 'I' does not state sex, so there's no need to avoid it.

I'm very much against the whole gender-woo stuff, but I find it baffling that people can be so confused by the they/plural/singular usage, when it has historically been commonplace to use 'they' to refer to a person of unknown sex (e.g. 'If a customer wishes to make a complaint, they should contact the following number' etc).

I totally agree with you on your last point.

I've worked for the same company for 20 years and we've always had to redact personal information so the person in question is not easily identified. So of he/she gets changed to they. Newer workers have asked me countless times why I'm talking about more than one person.

I find it baffling that people can be so confused by the they/plural/singular usage, when it has historically been commonplace to use 'they' to refer to a person of unknown sex

Because that's not how we're being asked to use it. It's the attempt to use it for someone who's standing right there with a clearly obvious sex.

It's only been used historically for an indeterminate person, not an identified individual.

And being indeterminate, there is a kind of plurality of potential identities that fits "they". Once you actually have identified an individual, there's no plurality left.

I can't understand people on the one hand not wanting to state their pronouns because of the fact that emphasising ones sex is detrimental to women, yet wanting to keep sex based pronouns as a thing

Sex where sex matters and neutral as a default

( appreciate it may be different people not one generic MN user who posts under many names )

‘
I can't understand people on the one hand not wanting to state their pronouns because of the fact that emphasising ones sex is detrimental to women, yet wanting to keep sex based pronouns as a thing’

Because nobody is going to treat me better if I call myself ‘they’.

I also work in a work place where we use 80% of the time as we deal with cases with details redacted

As someone in a samesex relationship I probably also use they to refer to my partner frequently in situations where it doesn't feel safe to disclose. I've never had anybody think its off, as it flows appropriately in a conversation.

No, it’s singular ‘they’ not plural ‘they’. Are you really that confused by it?

I wonder whether the same discussions took place when there was a shift from using the singular "thou" to the plural "you."

"Young knave, how bewildering thou art! Dost thou speak of "we" in place of "I" - for when thou speakest to me and sayest "you," thou speakest as to a crowd!"

Yet we do know that when people don't know your sex they do form different impressions that can be favourable for women

So if people were routinely referred to as they whatever their sex it's one less opportunity to start making sex based assumptions and it normalises treating male and female the same in society

I fear that the urge to not negate women as a sex based class means that on issues like this we accept gender - the concept that generally women are so different from men than the sex needs to be made clear for you to interpret things correctly

Wasn't that ( you ) also a formal vs informal change ?

‘So if people were routinely referred to as they whatever their sex it's one less opportunity to start making sex based assumptions and it normalises treating male and female the same in society’

Nonsense. Nobody ‘treats me’ as female because I say ‘she’. They treat me as female because they see I am female. And that isn’t something I need to be ashamed of, or hide.

Singular 'they' has been around for longer than singular 'you'. It's really not hard to grasp. And someone calling themselves 'they' will still say I - they are one person, not a crowd.

Unless we were to get a non-binary monarch. They might use we/they/them.

Before they see you

When you are being discussed

Might not happen to you but the nature of my work makes it common for me

Even having a female name is irrelevant then as it's English and not seen as female in other places

But it does happen to you - because the use of he abs she as key differences essentially programs our brains to think she and he are really different

Do you honestly believe that the pronouns would have no impact in the following situation

" a patient complained today, HE said that nurse was too rough "

" the patient is upset and in pain , HE needs more painkillers "

Because that's not how we're being asked to use it. It's the attempt to use it for someone who's standing right there with a clearly obvious sex.

I get that, and I don't think people should ve compelled to use alternative pronouns. However, I just don't buy the 'I'm confused - the person isn't plural!' line - it's often presented as a baffling grammatical confusion which people 'can't get their heads around'. Imo, people pretenting they find the grammar of it impossible to navigate or understand, rather than admitting that their real problem with it is an ideological one, is unhelpful and looks passive-aggressive or disingenuous.

Like the queen 🤣

Not intended to be passive aggressive or disingenuous at all. I do have issues with the ideological stance however my query was very specific about the use of 'we'.

I didn't really mean that you were necessarily being PA or disingenuous, OP - your question was, as you say, a but more specific. But I've seen faux confusion about the plural/singular 'they' quite often, and it does usually come across as disingenuous.

The only people I know who refer to themselves as ‘we’ are one band businesses.

So for example the local blind fitter is a one man band, no helpers etc but when he writes on his fb page about his work he types ‘We have done such a thing this week when he means I.

It’s to make them sound a bigger company than they are but insinuating there is more than one staff member.

A genuine situation.
A family member and his partner (they/them) visiting their family.
While chatting with the family member about how things are going and what has been happening I repeatedly find mid sentence I have no idea who is doing or saying things to whom.
Everyone is called "they", which could be 1 or 2 or 3 people, or in some sentences all 4 people.
"They told them x so now they are doing y without them, and they'll do it later instead." just blows my mind.
Seems like we need a new word for plural they/them.

I completely support ungendered personal pronouns, and had high hopes in my youth that one would emerge (Sie had my vote), or "it" would be claimed and promoted. I really wish our language didn't classify people by sex, but am so very happy it doesn't also gender all nouns, like so many other languages.