Times article - Emily Bridges not a threat to women's sport

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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/63c22896-b27f-11ec-9af1-7ee554784c95?shareToken=3c835bc12e74cd59c49c0f0f3a5abf9b

ladygindiva I think the comments are only available if you are a subscriber.

I wonder if TRAs think Women's sport is supposed to be like a 5 year olds sports day, where everyone gets a gold star so nobody feels sad.

Well it isn’t, we don’t care if you’re sad because you can’t compete with women, piss off back to your own category.

@ladygindiva

I can't seem to see the comments, can anyone direct me? Is it because I'm on my phone?

I used to be able to see the comments on share-token Times articles without a problem - I'm usually on MN on my iPad. Then one day they suddenly stopped appearing. I tried it on my phone and that still worked.

Then that stopped too. Massively frustrating. I think they’ve done something to the settings.

However, I do have one of those ‘read 2 free articles a week if you sign up' Times accounts, and I’ve discovered that the comments reappear if I sign in….in other words it seems possible not to be a paid subscriber, but perhaps see at least some comments if you choose your free articles carefully? It might even work if you sign in then link via a share token despite having used up your 2 free article ration - haven’t tried that yet….

The sporting criteria cited in this article (and used in more sports than just cycling) is 5 nanomoles per liter for trans women.

It is interesting they chose to express the measurement this way - it is a nice, small number. Dare I say inoffensive? But medical science usually expresses it as nanograms per deciliter.

For reference, a man with less than 300 nanograms per deciliter is considered to have low testosterone.

The normal range of testosterone for women is 8-60 nanograms per deciliter (although I have also seen a range of 15-70 quoted).

What is 5 nanomoles per liter, you may ask. Just so we can compare like with like.

5 nanomoles per liter is 144 nanograms per deciliter.

Yup, the acceptable level of testosterone for a transgender person competing in the female category is more than double what is considered normal for an adult human female.

@Abitofalark

According to the writer of this article it's a case of making 'her' way into womanhood through a different path. How is that possible? I mean you couldn't make your way into something if you claim to have the status or attribute of that something already. But even without that particular conundrum, womanhood is no more available than being a woman is.

Yesterday Lucy Bannerman also used the word 'womanhood', in reference to, I think, James Morris / Jan Morris.

Could this be a new formulation that The Times has agreed upon in an attempt to avoid stating that a trans person is a woman (and the reaction that would follow such a statement), in the mistaken belief that 'womanhood' is less stark and more negotiable?

Hugo Rifkind was using this phrase a lot on Times Radio this morning - a book by a woman about her husband's 'transition into womanhood'

I didn't listen.

That's interesting, Melroses - not the programme, I mean.

It's beginning to look more like an editorial decision on a form of words to be used at The Times.

@OvaHere

This is a young woman who enjoys the thrills and endures the spills of bike racing, who embraces the challenges and deals with the setbacks. She’s shown remarkable dignity throughout this period. If she’s competitive it’ll be because she’s talented, not because of her chromosomes, and if she does reach the level required to compete with the Laura Kennys of this world she might be part of a British Cycling team that wins things. Then how will the detractors react, because Emily Bridges would be representing Great Britain, representing them? Modern Britain.

It's interesting that York seems to think we'll all be super grateful that men in women's sport means winning medals over other countries as part of Team GB.

I'd rather Team GB lose than take a medal away from a female athlete of another nationality via cheating with a man on the team. I suspect most people who aren't male cyclists with a gender identity would agree.

I agree Ovahere, this idea that we would suddenly be grateful that a man has cheated his way to a win for the country made me furious. They really don't understand that what we care about is the women who lose opportunities because of males in women's sports. They have so little empathy for other people that they can't imagine we actually care about other women and that's why we campaign on their behalf.

No, I’m sorry, but the word womanhood isn’t up for grabs either. Hands off. I’ve been musing a lot on the ‘making her way into womanhood’ phrasing. It really is men shoving us aside to get into where they want to be - finding a ‘way in’. To something that’s not theirs in the first place. Talk about violation.

An Olympic Gold cyclist, who used to admire cyclist Robert Millar, begs to differ.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10680099/Olympic-gold-medallist-NICOLE-COOKE-hero-trans-woman-bravely-speaks-out.html

"Trans athletes must compete in a separate category – or countless young women's sporting dreams will be smashed"

And lo. Here bubbleth up my inner Nan.

What a load of old

@dropthevipers

"Eventually it reaches the ridiculous trope of the predatory trans woman lurking in the shadows of changing rooms or bathrooms." That's all you need to know about this mendacious bullshit article. Surprised it was in TheTimes given their GC credentials-perhaps they think they need to provide "balance"?

Unfortunately the women team mates of Lia Thomas have had to put up with Thomas' behavior amongst them in their changing room. They have recounted how Thomas walks around naked and is obviously very pleased to be there....

@OvaHere

This is a young woman who enjoys the thrills and endures the spills of bike racing, who embraces the challenges and deals with the setbacks. She’s shown remarkable dignity throughout this period. If she’s competitive it’ll be because she’s talented, not because of her chromosomes, and if she does reach the level required to compete with the Laura Kennys of this world she might be part of a British Cycling team that wins things. Then how will the detractors react, because Emily Bridges would be representing Great Britain, representing them? Modern Britain.

It's interesting that York seems to think we'll all be super grateful that men in women's sport means winning medals over other countries as part of Team GB.

I'd rather Team GB lose than take a medal away from a female athlete of another nationality via cheating with a man on the team. I suspect most people who aren't male cyclists with a gender identity would agree.

They cant be serious? If they start to 'win things', then their competitors will start to field men too. Dur.

Their 'detractors' will react with fury, not bloody gratitude.

God, they're all soo away with the fairies.

Sunday times today

Trans cyclist Emily Bridges facing ban from female events

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c8e9de4a-b2a6-11ec-9af1-7ee554784c95?shareToken=a5ae64ea3655fae12144c922f13942a2

York can't have it both ways (although they literally have lived their life doing just that...)
Transwomen want to compete competively, but "it's OK cos they haven't won anything"
Then mentions Laurel Hubbard as evidence, neglecting to mention that she was over 40 with an injury, competing against fit 20 year olds

Pippa, you're a dude too. No one expects any kind of coherence or accuracy from you when discussing these matters.

Transwomen want to compete competively, but "it's OK cos they haven't won anything"
Then mentions Laurel Hubbard as evidence, neglecting to mention that she was over 40 with an injury, competing against fit 20 year olds

They also talk of studies where they appear sometimes to see a drop in performance on reducing testosterone, and yet someone like Emily can just a few days ago win races against men, despite having lowered testosterone.

Lurking in the shadows? Hardly. More like standing proudly in full view.

I'd rather Team GB lose than take a medal away from a female athlete of another nationality via cheating with a man on the team. I suspect most people who aren't male cyclists with a gender identity would agree.

I agree. It is a zero sum game too. As another poster has pointed out, other countries will just stack their women’s teams with males too. You can also guarantee that less ethical nations who want to win at all costs won’t just be fielding their mediocre male athletes in women’s sports, they’ll be hand-picking their high potential/talent males just outside of medal range and putting them on hormone regimens.

@tabbycatstripy

You can’t ‘reduce someone to their DNA’. What else are we?

well you can but it will take a vat of acid and they certainly wont be getting up and peddling away on a bicycle after.

If she’s competitive it’ll be because she’s talented, not because of her chromosomes

Pippa seems a bit confused here. Not very long ago Pippa claimed that with the huge weight gain and massive loss of power caused by transition, that a male cyclist who transitioned could never be competitive against women.

Pippa says so and is debunked here: www.womensrights.network/wrn-youtube

Perhaps ignoring science, ignoring the SCEG report ( www.sportengland.org/news/new-guidance-transgender-inclusion-domestic-sport-published ) and taking advice on trans inclusion from somebody who appears so ill-informed and biased hasn't been a great idea for British Cycling.

@Liveliferun

I agree OP and I remember posting similar years ago - sport will be the tipping point for so many people. Sadly women confined in prison cells with male sex offenders hasn’t had the same effect, probably because people don’t identify with them. But sport…well it’s close to home, literally, and fairness lies at the heart of sport.

Prisons arent on tv and in the newspapers, might aswell be another planet. plus theres the prevailing idea of punishment that people should be treated like utter shit in prison and being sexually assaulted in one, well thats just another deterrent not to do crime isnt it.

a lot of people really do think equality permeates society and that womens prisons are as numerous as mens and full of thugs and robbers. they dont know theres 77k male prisoners in this country and 3k female and that most females are in prison for debt or for supporting a male criminal in someway either helping him or shielding him.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10679985/Female-cyclists-considered-BOYCOTTING-Omnium-Championships-Emily-Bridges-allowed-race.html

‘I wonder if TRAs think Women's sport is supposed to be like a 5 year olds sports day, where everyone gets a gold star so nobody feels sad.’

Yes. They prefer inclusion over competition. Which is up to them, if they want to set up their own egg and spoon race. They don’t get to tear up a dynamic sector belonging to a different group.

Two years ago I started a thread about Bridges. I predicted what would happen. I was targeted by Bridges’ family because of it.
All I did was speak the truth because I knew it wasn’t right and women were being harmed.
I don’t feel happy that we find ourselves here, but I do feel thankful for the support women are now receiving.
❤️

@BruceAndNosh

York can't have it both ways (although they literally have lived their life doing just that...) Transwomen want to compete competively, but "it's OK cos they haven't won anything" Then mentions Laurel Hubbard as evidence, neglecting to mention that she was over 40 with an injury, competing against fit 20 year olds

Hubbard still holds the world record beating a womens record, so still has that in the guiness books