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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times article - Emily Bridges not a threat to women's sport

109 replies

Popuptent · 02/04/2022 20:35

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/63c22896-b27f-11ec-9af1-7ee554784c95?shareToken=3c835bc12e74cd59c49c0f0f3a5abf9b

OP posts:
Saltyquiche · 02/04/2022 21:07

I don’t understand how solely testosterone is the measurement utilised.

CarbonelCat · 02/04/2022 21:17

It's sad we can no longer see the comments do share some here c&p if you get a chance - they cheer me in an otherwise depressing world!

OvaHere · 02/04/2022 21:22

@CarbonelCat

It's sad we can no longer see the comments do share some here c&p if you get a chance - they cheer me in an otherwise depressing world!
Just imagine lots of sentences constructed with the words, man, male, ridiculous, cheat, unfair, biased, nonsense and so on.

That should give you an idea. Grin

CarbonelCat · 02/04/2022 21:28
Grin
Liveliferun · 02/04/2022 21:28

Comments are - all but maybe one - critical of the article

Here are some:

“ No. Just no. You are such a small, but noisy, minority but you live in a bubble and think this is a reasonable argument.

The vast majority do not.

XX and XY . End of debate”

“ Well I haven’t made it past the first few paragraphs without seeing such a massive flaw.
This isn’t about empathy. It’s about biology and facts.
DNA plays a vital role. So to suggest it has reduced the argument is ridiculous.
Developing as a male and then suppressing a little bit of testosterone is not “finding womanhood a different way”. It is literally getting all the male development advantages and taking that into a female sports competition.

I see you’ve done the typical TRA thing of victimhood over reality. The arguments that get me down usually come from your side. How lesbians are disgusting for not wanting to sleep with trans women with male genitalia for a start.

But we get to sport. Where a male bodied athlete with a slight reduction in testosterone can go from 454th rank in the male category to absolutely smashing the womens category. Yes. Male athletes are taking womens places. Look at Laurie Hubbard. Not stunning and brave. Quite literally a male advantaged body beating a female.
Which really is the crux of this. Sport is segregated by sex. Not gender identity.
You really have fallen for the propaganda”

“ What an appalling article. It is simply weong for biological males to compete in the female protected sports category.
What is difficult about accepting females are biological and not simply how some blokes feel they are in their imagination.
Rather than have trans-activists write on this issue, why not engage qualified sports scientists e.g. Ross Tucker or developmental biologists e.g. Emma Hilton.
Biological males competing in woman's sport is in my view cheating.”

achillesshield · 02/04/2022 21:28

What I've noticed is a lot of people new to the debate, notably fathers with daughters, waking up and joining in. As a nation, we may live and let live with regard to how people identify and what they do, but we really don't like cheating, particularly in sport. I think this will be seen retrospectively as the turning point in the whole fiasco.

Clymene · 02/04/2022 21:32

@MadameKali

I can never see the comments on Times articles but I like the fact that they point out at the end of the article who Pippa York is. "Pippa York, riding as Robert Millar, was an elite professional cyclist for 16 seasons and completed her transition in 2003. She sits on GB Cycling’s diversity and inclusion advisory group"
I love this about Pippa. Most transwomen scream about being deadnamed. But not Pippa because Pippa knows their entire credibility and fame rests on what they achieved as Robert Millar. So I would suggest that deadnaming probably isn't very traumatic and awful for anyone but is just another ace in the victim card pile you get when you transition as a middle aged successful man.
Liveliferun · 02/04/2022 21:33

I agree OP and I remember posting similar years ago - sport will be the tipping point for so many people. Sadly women confined in prison cells with male sex offenders hasn’t had the same effect, probably because people don’t identify with them. But sport…well it’s close to home, literally, and fairness lies at the heart of sport.

334bu · 02/04/2022 21:47

A bit ironic that Pippa is talking about unfairness, when they admitted to doping with testosterone when they were competing as Robert Millar in races like the Tour de France. Cheating obviously ok in order to win.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/philippa-york-interview-doping-it-was-cheating-and-all-of-us-were-doing-it-8jbmqp92m

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/04/2022 21:48

@Saltyquiche

I don’t understand how solely testosterone is the measurement utilised.
I am also mystified
Times article - Emily Bridges not a threat to women's sport
Times article - Emily Bridges not a threat to women's sport
TheMarzipanDildo · 02/04/2022 21:53

I don’t mind the Times providing balance at all, because the TRAs always manage to sound batshit. The evidence of our own eyes defeats their arguments in seconds!

OvaHere · 02/04/2022 21:55

This is a young woman who enjoys the thrills and endures the spills of bike racing, who embraces the challenges and deals with the setbacks. She’s shown remarkable dignity throughout this period. If she’s competitive it’ll be because she’s talented, not because of her chromosomes, and if she does reach the level required to compete with the Laura Kennys of this world she might be part of a British Cycling team that wins things. Then how will the detractors react, because Emily Bridges would be representing Great Britain, representing them? Modern Britain.

It's interesting that York seems to think we'll all be super grateful that men in women's sport means winning medals over other countries as part of Team GB.

I'd rather Team GB lose than take a medal away from a female athlete of another nationality via cheating with a man on the team. I suspect most people who aren't male cyclists with a gender identity would agree.

CarbonelCat · 02/04/2022 21:56

Thanks @Liveliferun - they do make me feel better!

Chloemol · 02/04/2022 21:56

I don’t normally comment

What a crappy load of tosh

Fenlandia · 02/04/2022 22:12

I make no comment on this comment from the article:
"Simple solution, have three categories; male, female, stunning & brave."

Liveliferun · 02/04/2022 22:15

More than 150 comments now - still flooding in - and all but one I’ve seen are overwhelmingly critical of the article.
I now see why the Times commissioned Pippa York to write this nonsense, it’s a genius move.

MsTSwift · 02/04/2022 22:19

The author is massively pushing their own agenda - ridiculous.

BruceAndNosh · 02/04/2022 22:19

I too would like to compete at elite level.
Sadly I can't because I'm seriously unfit.

Clymene · 02/04/2022 22:20

Emily can continue to enjoy the thrills and excitement of racing in the men's team. I mean I'm sure that Emily stands no chance of being in the Olympic team when competing against men but that's life.

I wonder when Emily's dysphoria kicked in - before or after Emily realised that they were a good cyclist but not a great one

Times article - Emily Bridges not a threat to women's sport
FemaleAndLearning · 02/04/2022 22:24

That article! I want to laugh but then I just get so angry. Glad they reminded everyone who couldn't use their eyes that the writer is male.

Helleofabore · 02/04/2022 22:27

@TheMarzipanDildo

I don’t mind the Times providing balance at all, because the TRAs always manage to sound batshit. The evidence of our own eyes defeats their arguments in seconds!
They really do! They don’t get it and will never get it. But they do some heavy lifting just by publishing articles like this.
frazzled1 · 02/04/2022 22:33

Emily isn’t a threat to women’s sport and she isn’t cheating anyone out of their place. She’s making her way into womanhood through a different path, which is incredibly difficult

Snorted my tea at this. Grin Different path my ovaries.

ladygindiva · 02/04/2022 22:33

I can't seem to see the comments, can anyone direct me? Is it because I'm on my phone?

OldCrone · 02/04/2022 22:33

I wonder when Emily's dysphoria kicked in - before or after Emily realised that they were a good cyclist but not a great one

It was after Emily was dropped from the GB cycling team.

I was informed that I was no longer going to be part of the Great Britain Cycling Team. The reason I was given was that I no longer had the potential required to remain on the programme. There had been no indication prior to this that I was going to be dropped.

www.skysports.com/more-sports/cycling/news/15264/12101251/emily-bridges-coming-out-as-trans-in-cycling-is-a-crucial-step-on-my-journey

Emily said: "Originally I was thinking 'try and get to Paris and then see how I'm feeling and transition after then.'"

www.itv.com/news/wales/2020-10-11/welsh-cyclist-emily-bridges-opens-up-about-coming-out-as-transgender-to-inspire-others

Abitofalark · 02/04/2022 22:48

According to the writer of this article it's a case of making 'her' way into womanhood through a different path. How is that possible? I mean you couldn't make your way into something if you claim to have the status or attribute of that something already. But even without that particular conundrum, womanhood is no more available than being a woman is.

Yesterday Lucy Bannerman also used the word 'womanhood', in reference to, I think, James Morris / Jan Morris.

Could this be a new formulation that The Times has agreed upon in an attempt to avoid stating that a trans person is a woman (and the reaction that would follow such a statement), in the mistaken belief that 'womanhood' is less stark and more negotiable?