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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I feel like I have to choose between my religion and supporting trans rights

78 replies

DaughterofDawn · 30/03/2022 05:26

I am pagan. (If you aren’t familiar I’ll go into detail about this further down) I have always been an enthusiastic ally of LGBT+ rights.

If you know what a pagan is feel free to skip this paragraph. If not please read.
Pagan beliefs vary quite a bit so my beliefs may not represent or reflect what other pagan believe but essentially I believe in the earth and that everything on it humans, animals , trees, plants insects and even rocks have a spirit and that we are all connected and one. I also believe in balance between light and dark which is also the divine feminine and the divine masculine. And I also believe in something called the triple goddess which is the maiden, mother and crone which are the three spiritual stages of a woman’s life. You do not necessarily have to become a biological mother to experience the spirituality of the mother stage. You merely have to feel motherly concern towards others. This could be anything from watching over a beloved pet or caring for a friend or a family member.

Now that that is done. I went into detail about my personal beliefs because it’s important to the story. My religion has given me through a lot of hard times and mental health crisis. It has grounded me. I have have very loving spiritual journeys and self discoveries with both the divine feminine and masculine. They are deeply ingrained with who I am. Up until now I have always felt like my spirituality was compatible with LGBT+ rights and that anyone can experience the divine feminine or masculine no matter who they are, what they look like or what body parts they may have. The triple goddess is all about the cycles of life and the earth beginning middle and end. I love it it is beautiful. The thing I love most about my religion is that it was always a safe retreat for me when I was exhausted from drama and politics.

Why am I telling you this? Because now it no longer feels like a safe retreat. My friend who used to be pagan recently came after me and told me that my religious practice is transphobic because of the divine feminine, masculine and the triple goddess because it is gender binary and the triple goddess is especially transphobic because of the mother stage.

I was blown away and absolutely flabbergasted. She was really pushy that I needed to change my views. We argued about it because I disagreed. I told her that anyone can experience these things no matter where they fall on the gender spectrum. But she told me it was inciting violence because it would make non binary people feel disphoric. 😳😳😳 And then I went silent when she said if I don’t want to continue practicing am oppressive religion that I either need to drop the triple goddess and divine feminine/masculine or convert to agnostic/atheism. I was completely blind sided by this. She wasn’t always like this. I am really confused about what brought this on. The divine female/male and triple goddess are core to my practice. To remove them would be to remove a critical part of myself.

I feel lost because now she has made me feel as if my religion and trans rights are not compatible. I also feel like I lost a friend because I did not immediately came to her sudden extreme (in my view) demands. I tried talking to her later after calling down but she has completely written me off. I might add that this is really out of character for her.

Am I being unreasonable? Or is it my friend? I can’t give up on my religion or the divine feminine/masculine or the triple goddess. Does that make me transphobic? I’m feeling really lost please help. 😢

OP posts:
GoodnessTruthBeauty · 30/03/2022 05:29

OP the vital piece of information that is missing is EVERYTHING is transphobic.

INeverKnewYa · 30/03/2022 05:37

Dilemmas, dilemmas. Have you tried a McDonald’s? I hear their McPlant can be cathartic.

Shortpoet · 30/03/2022 05:51

Ask her if Christianity with “God the father, the son, and the Holy Ghost (He, Him, His)” is ok, or is it just female energy that is transphobic?

Turningpurple · 30/03/2022 05:52

I have some connection to paganism. Sounds like you lean towards Wicca?

Quite frankly your friend sounds like she has spent too much time on witchtok. My 18 year old showed me a few times and it's just bizarre

You explained your points of view. That you dont have to be a woman to identify with the divine feminine. You explained you don't have be a mother to identify with the mother stage.

Sounds to me like she is, misguided. She has involved herself with a group of people that simply dont like that someone's religion hold the divine feminine in high regard. Its not a new thing in religion.

But the trans argument brings a new way to do it.

Its not inciting violence. Or 'literal violence'. How can believing in the divine feminine be violent? Is being a mother 'violence'? Against women who can't have children? I bet that's never been her concern.

Isn't the ideal to balance the feminine and masculine inside yourself?

I would ignore her and certain would not remain friends with her

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 30/03/2022 05:58

Friends dont tell you what to believe. They respect your beliefs. And yes EVERYTHING to do with women is transphobic.

Somanysocks · 30/03/2022 05:59

You could always tell her to mind her own business and then go about your day in peace.

mathanxiety · 30/03/2022 05:59

The word 'erasure' springs to mind.

MogtheMerciless · 30/03/2022 05:59

Who is this person to try and dictate your beliefs and how you practice your religion? How you do things and how you think are none of her business or concern. Personally I would tell her to jog right along.

Turningpurple · 30/03/2022 06:01

Does your friend think biology is inciting violence against non binary people?

DERFDogmaExlusionary · 30/03/2022 06:17

I feel like I have to choose between my religion and supporting trans rights

Your friend is a bully. And it's bad energy.

“soft totalitarianism” is destroying lives every day and not fun to be around. Maybe distance yourself or forget this person? or if you want to remain 'friends' you could say "I'm not available to discuss my beliefs. If you bring it up again I'm ...."

Lifeinthelastlane · 30/03/2022 06:46

Why are you even entertaining this?
Some random person's feelings about your religious beliefs is no reason to give up something you seem serious about!

Igmum · 30/03/2022 07:19

Are you transphobic? If not then ignore her. She is crazy. There are people who label everything transphobic and this really does not help

NoSquirrels · 30/03/2022 07:28

Am I being unreasonable? Or is it my friend?

It’s your friend.
As with all religions, being tolerant of others beliefs is key to acceptance. She’s not being tolerant and dressing it up as you being intolerant.

ChiefInspectorParker · 30/03/2022 07:28

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ChiefInspectorParker · 30/03/2022 07:29

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SulisMinerva · 30/03/2022 07:31

Ignore her. I’m pagan too (not Wicca) and would just tell her my beliefs are no business of hers. She sounds horribly bigoted.

HoyaSaxa · 30/03/2022 07:33

People argue about religion all the time. You have to have the courage of your convictions, otherwise your faith is pretty flimsy.

Ask yourself; “what do I believe?”

Once you have decided (and it could be flexible and change), take heart and strength from that and continue to believe that.

Your friend sounds like a dick.

Would she go up to a Jewish person and rip apart their belief system and tell them that they are doing it wrong? That she knows best? Or a Muslim?

I’m a Protestant who grew up with a small number Catholic for friends in an area with some sectarian tension. We are All Christian but have major differences in how we approach things but I would never tell them that they were wrong. And vice versa.
Never mind us telling a Jewish person that they have the wrong idea about Jesus.

Have faith and courage.

DERFDogmaExlusionary · 30/03/2022 07:34

This by Helena is a message for your friend:

"When a person is at peace with themselves and expressing themselves naturally, they don’t desperately micromanage everything and everyone around them."

lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name?s=r

erinaceus · 30/03/2022 07:35

If you imagine your friend coming down with you in this heavy handed way about a different issue that relates to both society and religion, would you worry about it?

This person does not sound like a friend to be honest; you might have to keep your distance, even if temporarily until they become more moderate. It's not really on to demand someone else change their faith on the basis that you do not agree with them.

kalidasa · 30/03/2022 07:38

Wow how rude. I think some people's relationship to identity issues is/feels a lot like religious belief and perhaps that's why she felt it was somehow ok to challenge you this strongly. Obviously it is incredibly rude and inappropriate to tell one person they have to reject their beliefs and instead accept your own! But people have always done it when they thought someone's salvation was at stake. I think ironically your friend is behaving in a more extremely "religious" way than you, the one with the practising faith! (I am a Christian by the way so I am not anti-religion at all.)

gogohm · 30/03/2022 07:40

As with all religions/belief systems/codes opinions vary and some are more dogmatic that others. A lot of evangelical Christians are intolerant of those who don't share their beliefs, they are anti lgbtq+ but it doesn't mean all churches are, around 1/3 of the congregation of my old church church were gay with 2 trans members all fully accepted.

Lovelyricepudding · 30/03/2022 08:52

Most religious beliefs put you at odds with other religions or secular society in some ways. If they didn't they wouldn't really constitute a religion at all, just a past time or hobby.

Worldgonecrazy · 30/03/2022 08:59

Paganism and Wicca drank the TWAW kool aid very early on. Your ‘friend’ is wrong.

Ignore her/him/them.

Wicca cannot be transphobic if all a woman has to do to invoke the make energy is strap on a sword Grin. Maybe it’s there not being a male equivalent that upsets your friend?

Beowulfa · 30/03/2022 09:04

This person has left their religion for a new one- that of gender ideology. Anyone who tries to aggressively convert you by slagging off your own religion is not a friend. You don't need them in your life.

Your religion sounds really interesting.

senua · 30/03/2022 09:11

I feel lost because now she has made me feel as if my religion and trans rights are not compatible.
Do tell. What are trans rights? And how do they differ from anybody else's rights?