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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Former Trans Child of Gender Critical Parents (very long). *Trigger warning - descriptions of self harm and suicide* - Title edited by MNHQ

541 replies

pop91 · 26/03/2022 22:33

Hi,

To start I wanna say I'm writing this post in good faith to provide the viewpoint of a Trans person with Gender Critical parents but I know this is the internet and this will probably just be trolled to death but here goes.

I had a pretty regular 'happy' family setup, and apparently first told my parents of my identity at just 5yrs old but the first I remember is at 8yrs old when I refused to go by my 'very gendered' birth name but my parents insisted on using it especially publicly.

My parents were never particularly strict on gender roles in the home - my sister would wear my dad's glasses and jacket and stomp around with his briefcase in hand and my brother had an emo phase with heels and mascara to match and apart from some grumbling from my father it was never the biggest issue in our house.

Sexuality was different though even though my father would class himself as a pragmatic centrist, barring a socialist university phase, and my mother a card-carrying progressive New Labour type whose Best Friend was the most flamboyant gay man and an Aunt who lived with her 'friend' until she passed. There was an uncomfortableness with sexuality where both my parents would call it a lifestyle choice and opposed gay marriage - cut to three years ago when my older brother came out as bisexual and last month the youngest sister as a lesbian Grin but rest assured the other 3 siblings remain firmly 'normal.'

Back to me and by 12 I had started puberty and was experiencing debilitating gender dysphoria - I would look into the mirror and see nothing that matched my brain. I would continue to feel this way until the bullying and dysphoria got so bad that one night I climbed into my bathtub with a kitchen knife hoping I could change my body to fit my brain somehow I managed not to perform self-surgery in my bathtub.

A couple of months later I came clean to my parents, I wasn't expecting a big hug but I wasn't expecting what came next. They ignored it as if I had told them what I wanted for dinner, they decided they didn't hear what I had said at all.

Over the next year, the internet became my friend as I found ways to affirm my gender by doing hidden things at first and then slowly more outward things. I came out to my siblings and although they found it confusing my oldest brother and sister were a godsend who I wouldn't have survived without, They helped me pick out a new haircut and new clothes and we came up with a new name.

I came out in school and sure there was bullying but I was feeling so Euphoric that it almost didn't matter. When the teachers found out they informed my parents and that's when everything changed! My parents sat me down and said I was just confused. They threw out my new clothes, anything that I used to affirm my gender, even my shoes and magazines then they took my bedroom door off and took away my laptop and phone and forced my older siblings to refer to me by my birth name, my older brother and sister stopped supporting me and I lost my only family support and anything that was helping me.

Eventually, when they realised everything they had done hadn't worked and I still felt the same way, they decided to try both religious and non-religious conversion therapy which left permanent scarring to my mental health and I frequently have nightmares about it.

At 15 I had my first suicide attempt and my parents forced me to lie and say it was due just to bullying at school but that wasn't true it was the dysphoria and conversion therapy that was killing me.

From 15 to 17 I had multiple suicide attempts and after the third one, my parents finally allowed me to stop the conversion therapy but still forcibly live as my 'biological' sex.

Eventually, I managed to get to a great University and at 18 I socially transitioned and by 20 I had started hormones. I now have a job that provides me financial stability and have an amazing partner, with 2 children from a prior relationship that I now consider like my own. We are also now having a baby very soon.

My mother now describes herself as Gender Critical and frequently posts online about how she will be unable to see her grandchildren because of her views, which is true as I will not allow my parents to see either my child or stepchildren.

My parents continue to refuse to acknowledge my identity and pronouns. The last time we talked, she said she believes I am just gay, which neither makes sense considering my partner's gender nor the fact she also has a terrible relationship with my lesbian sister and bisexual brother who also rarely allows his child to visit my mum, due to her comments about their sexualities.

I finally have the support back of all my siblings and we do frequently gather without my parents. I hope one day my parents change their minds but honestly I don't hold much hope and I don't know if I could forgive what they did to me.

A lot of online trans activists wish trans children for Gender Criticals but I don't, it wasn't very nice at all. If you're going to ask if I think kids should transition, the answer is I don't know as I didn't transition as a child and a social transition helped plenty for me.

Well that's it I think, just the perspective and experience of a trans person with Gender Critical parents, feel free to ask any reasonable questions or respectful questions. Smile

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AgathaMystery · 27/03/2022 00:56

@OvaHere

Should the GC movement not make it clearer than that ppl like my parents aren't welcome?

The 'GC movement' are just people who think biology is real and sex immutable.

We don't have a head office, a secret lodge or headed notepaper.

Gosh this is awkward. It’s late now but tomorrow we will swear you in & I, or one of the other dinosaurs, will pop your complimentary t-towel and AHF stickers in the post.

Meetings are in person, at the full moon at your local bus depot. Marks are optional but obvs bring your broomstick.

OvaHere · 27/03/2022 00:57

We should have headed notepaper. I want headed notepaper.
Grin

OvaHere · 27/03/2022 00:58

Lol @AgathaMystery

Lovelyricepudding · 27/03/2022 00:59

Meetings are in person, at the full moon at your local bus depot.

What happens if a non-GC person turns up to catch the last bus? Are they scared off with ribbons?

pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:00

@sacredfeminina

OP, do you think someone can be transrace.if someone hates their skin colour, feels alienated and has gone to great lengths to change it because they 'feel' a different race, Is that acceptable?
No
OP posts:
LosingTheWill2022 · 27/03/2022 02:01

@Lovelyricepudding

Female refers to the sex with large immobile gametes but alone is insufficient as it doesn't tell us what specied. A female could be a tib, pen, sow, nanny, mare, jill, cow, bitch, hen, doe... obviously human females are none of these. The words for a human female are girl and women. The words for human males are boy and man.
Very clearly explained.

The stereotyping comes with the descriptors "masculine" and "feminine".

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 27/03/2022 02:02

We should have headed notepaper. I want headed notepaper.

Yes!!!

What about if we start our own hotel chain, and then we could have little headed courtesy notepads in all the rooms? Pens?

Personalised chocolates on the pillows?

I’m very keen on the secret lodge idea too.

AgathaMystery · 27/03/2022 02:03

Stop derailing you’re all awful. Hmm

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 27/03/2022 02:03

And of course we could fund it all with all those Russian roubles and Christian Right/far right dollars. Sorted.

sacredfeminina · 27/03/2022 02:03

Women dress like women because womens clothes are designed for womens bodies. Our bodies are shaped due to our function of pro-creation. Ive just had my third baby in 5 years and THANK GOD for wrap around maternity dresses. I also often envy my fellas work trousers. We live an off grid life, and flappy dresses are a practical nightmare ( when not breastfeeding in a heap). But no way his trousers will stay up comfortably...

If however you are on about the fashions that women adorn in order to attract the opposite sex: heels, skimpy dresses etc... Thats a different ballgame and is all based on a perception of what is sexually appealing.

So do transwomen adopt clothing that is designed for the female sexed body...

Or clothes that they believe entice men

Or clothes they are sexually aroused by.

And then, why?

pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:04

@sacredfeminina

Another question - are you sexually aroused by imagining yourself as a woman?
Um, I think I'm repulsed by this question for more than 100 reasons.

I don't feel sexually anything about my gender identity.

OP posts:
sacredfeminina · 27/03/2022 02:05

Why can transrace not be real? But trans-sex can?

What is different about the two things?

pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:09

@Lovelyricepudding

What would gender critical parents mean by forcing you to live as your sex? The only thing I can think of for my teenage dc would be the correct type of contraception and for the girls to have access to sanitary products and supportive bras especially for sport. I would also expect any boys to play sport with other boys and for both to respect the privacy and dignity of others by only using single sex spaces which accord with their sex.

Did you not respect the dignity and privacy of others until your parents required this of you? And do you ignore this now?

I don't play sports. no, not even at school.

They forced me to go by my birth name and pronouns and insisted I wear the 'right' clothes.

OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 27/03/2022 02:09

@sacredfeminina

Why can transrace not be real? But trans-sex can?

What is different about the two things?

I'm also very interested in understanding why you think this is different. If identifying as a man or a woman is enough to make you a man or a woman, why doesn't identifying as a certain race make you a person of that race?
pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:09

@sacredfeminina

Why can transrace not be real? But trans-sex can?

What is different about the two things?

race isn't real.

Sex and Gender are.

OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 27/03/2022 02:11

I agree that sex is real.

Why do you think that gender is real while race is not? Aren't they both just social constructs?

pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:12

@Lovelyricepudding

What input did you have from camhs for your multiple suicide attempts?
General Therapy
OP posts:
pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:13

@AlexaShutUp

I agree that sex is real.

Why do you think that gender is real while race is not? Aren't they both just social constructs?

no, I believe gender is real bc I 'feel' it inside me.

I don't 'feel' a race inside me.

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Whatsnewpussyhat · 27/03/2022 02:15

So your parents think you are gay. You said it can't be true because of your partners 'gender'. So I assume you are the same sex. If so how does that not make you gay?

'Top surgery' is usually the euphemism for a radical double mastectomy rather that a man getting implants.

Needing a donor would also suggest two females as one is obviously pregnant. Most males who claim to be women seem to quite happily use their penis and produce sperm which could impregnate a woman.

Well to me Man, Women and Non-Binary are all identities whereas male, female and intersex are biological and normally they work together
Female = Women
and sometimes they don't
Female = Man

To you maybe. To most people man means human male and woman means human female. Man and woman are not 'identities'. Non binary is meaningless as you are either male or female. You can't be no sex.

Firstly women are in 99% of cases an adult human female who identifies as a woman and secondly in 1% of cases either a woman is an Adult Trans Woman who identifies as a woman or anyone who falls towards the women end of the gender spectrum and identifies as a woman

Firstly, women don't 'identify as women. Gender identity ideology is your religion, not ours.
100% of women are female.
100% of men are male.

"Woman end of the gender spectrum"

Ffs. The GI joe to Barbie batshit again.

Unfortunately, I don't feel I can disclose my biological sex or gender identity as I fear it would lead to abuse which would trigger my dysphoria

Yet you choose to post on mumsnet where all the big nasty GC women point out sexed reality? 🤔

sacredfeminina · 27/03/2022 02:16

If race is a word to describe white skin and black skin (very simply) then can a white person identify as being black.

Can a white person hate their skin, feel no connection with other white people. Can a white person want to be considered black. Can a white person 'live as a black person?'

Does a white person then actually become black by doing this?

pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:16

It's actually really hard to keep track of every single post and question.

If people want to feel free to DM and repost responses if you need to.

OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 27/03/2022 02:17

I'm really curious tbh at the idea that you think gender is "real" while race is not.

For most people, race is probably far more "real", even if there is no real biological basis for it. People's experience of race has such an enormous influence on their day to day lives.
Gender, if separated from biological sex, seems to have little meaning other than some rather outdated stereotypes.

AgathaMystery · 27/03/2022 02:17

& there we have it.

Well done everyone.

LosingTheWill2022 · 27/03/2022 02:22

They forced me to go by my birth name and pronouns and insisted I wear the 'right' clothes

Gender critical means that there is no "right" or "wrong" clothes for either sex. Nor right/wrong jobs, make-up, domestic roles etc. etc.

Your mother was not gender critical.

pop91 · 27/03/2022 02:23

@Whatsnewpussyhat

So your parents think you are gay. You said it can't be true because of your partners 'gender'. So I assume you are the same sex. If so how does that not make you gay?

'Top surgery' is usually the euphemism for a radical double mastectomy rather that a man getting implants.

Needing a donor would also suggest two females as one is obviously pregnant. Most males who claim to be women seem to quite happily use their penis and produce sperm which could impregnate a woman.

Well to me Man, Women and Non-Binary are all identities whereas male, female and intersex are biological and normally they work together
Female = Women
and sometimes they don't
Female = Man

To you maybe. To most people man means human male and woman means human female. Man and woman are not 'identities'. Non binary is meaningless as you are either male or female. You can't be no sex.

Firstly women are in 99% of cases an adult human female who identifies as a woman and secondly in 1% of cases either a woman is an Adult Trans Woman who identifies as a woman or anyone who falls towards the women end of the gender spectrum and identifies as a woman

Firstly, women don't 'identify as women. Gender identity ideology is your religion, not ours.
100% of women are female.
100% of men are male.

"Woman end of the gender spectrum"

Ffs. The GI joe to Barbie batshit again.

Unfortunately, I don't feel I can disclose my biological sex or gender identity as I fear it would lead to abuse which would trigger my dysphoria

Yet you choose to post on mumsnet where all the big nasty GC women point out sexed reality? 🤔

I don't why you feel the need to work out my sex as the experience from my parents that I shared would be the same the other way around.

and no not GI Joe to Barbie more actual sex characteristics like what someone experiences in their brain vs what they see.

for example: In your mind, you are 5'11 with a beard, a flat chest and a dick but in reality, you're 5'2 with no beard and boobs and a vagina.

^ that disconnect makes someone trans.

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