"The answer Is Mumsnet, I believe"

[EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]

This is a good thread with contributions from Suzanne Moore and Hadley Freeman in response to 3 men who are perplexed by the level of "TERF representation in the UK elite".

It's a strong argument for the importance of MN's campaign about the Online Harms Bill. I hope Justine and MNHQ are proud.

Sarah Pedersen identified MN as a subaltern counterpublic in a recent paper (riffing off Nancy Fraser)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4478528-theyve-got-an-absolute-army-behind-them-womens-cooperative-constellation-in-Scotland

The term subaltern counterpublic was conceptualized by Nancy Fraser (1997) as

“parallel discursive arenas where members of subordinated social groups invent and circulate counterdiscourses, which in turn permit them to formulate oppositional interpretations of their identities, interests, and needs” (p. 81).

counterpublic.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/an-introduction-to-counterpublics/

@nepeta

As others have noted here, the situation is hundred times worse in the US than in the UK. The Democratic Party is completely in the trans women are women in every possible aspect camp, and any attempt to address the problems that come from clashing rights cause ostracism and canceling.

The way out of this situation is likely to be much longer than in European countries, with many more individuals who later regret getting bilateral mastectomies and testosterone shots before they are even able to vote. The private nature of the health care system makes things worse, because the financial motives are much greater there, and the initial political polarisation makes measured debates extremely unlikely to happen.

The National Public Radio (closest to the BBC in some ways, and usually thought of as producing very good, wholesome programs for children and also good documentaries), something all granola-eating and Birkenstock-wearing Liberals there support, recently published this book review:

www.npr.org/2022/03/14/1086399119/in-manhunt-a-virus-turns-anyone-with-enough-testosterone-into-a-feral-beast

It is a fevered dream (or nightmare) about a future dystopia where TERFs get their skulls cracked by trans women and JK Rowling dies in a fire with all her supporters. The author is a trans woman.

This is insane. I'd imagine JKR's legal team will be looking into that shit rag of a book at some point.

[quote Delphinium20]Witches, Ross Douthat has been paying attention! Check this article out...he's found our arguments and is taking our side.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220413173054/www.nytimes.com/2022/04/13/opinion/transgender-culture-war.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220413173054/www.nytimes.com/2022/04/13/opinion/transgender-culture-war.html[/quote]
Thanks.
A bit of a side- musing...Apart from the main content, I'm somewhat intrigued by the Rorschach test which he indicates aids understanding of the 'culture wars', but then as far as I can see doesn't allude to again. To me it's a rather lovely representation of something important.... but what on earth else could it be interpreted as by people on other sides of the 'war'?

What a good piece that is (I know nothing about Ross douthat)

I'm new here so this is my first comment. The New York Times opinion piece is well argued and I felt a small sense of hope reading it. The comments are, at a guess, approx 97% against the article, but I'm hoping there are many people who read it and are thinking about it without commenting. I haven't seen the Twitter response because I removed myself from there recently as I find it too toxic. Thanks to the OP for starting the thread.

We are so lucky to have this space
Thank you Mumsnet

Eek...think I misunderstood that to mean swollen testicles!

Dammit, Abhanmoor, now I won't be able to look the lad at the pet shop in the face, after having asked "Have you got fat balls?" They'd had some kind of supply problem. The birds were hungry. Oh damn ....

@SportyGirlsMum

I'm new here so this is my first comment. The New York Times opinion piece is well argued and I felt a small sense of hope reading it. The comments are, at a guess, approx 97% against the article, but I'm hoping there are many people who read it and are thinking about it without commenting. I haven't seen the Twitter response because I removed myself from there recently as I find it too toxic. Thanks to the OP for starting the thread.

A great deal of long-time NYTimes readers tried to get comments on that article, and were rejected (see Ovarit.com)

Welcome @SportyGirlsMum!!! I've got teen girls who love sports so I care a lot about men in girls' sports. Great to have you!!

Just wanted to share the number 2 and number 3 most liked comments in this article (from an overwhelmingly left-wing readership):

"Thank you, especially for the final paragraph. I'm a liberal Democrat and a gender critical feminist who lives in the kind of place so blue it refers to itself as a "people's republic. When I've expressed outre views that children can't meaningfully consent to sterilizing hormones, that all JKR did was state a fact about menstruation, the post-pubertal males should not wrestle against natal females I've been shouted down even by close decades-long friends as an irredeemable bigot. The left my ideological home is so blatantly wrong about basic factual issues in this debate that it makes me wonder what other pieties I've swallowed unquestioningly without critical thought. It's like the mirror image of the right's insane climate change denial (of course with far lower but still important stakes)."

"I recently changed my voter registration over this issue. I've always voted straight ticket for Democrats, but the party has lost me over this issue. Women who voice any concerns whatsoever are told to sit down and shut up. I don't tolerate misogyny from the right, I won't tolerate it from the left either."

That is heartening to here, Delphinium20.

That is interesting, thank you.Dare I ask what the most liked comment was?

Thank you Mumsnet.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Eek...think I misunderstood that to mean swollen testicles!

Dammit, Abhanmoor, now I won't be able to look the lad at the pet shop in the face, after having asked "Have you got fat balls?" They'd had some kind of supply problem. The birds were hungry. Oh damn ....

If he's a lad he won't have fat balls. This problem may await him in old age!

Thanks to the OP for starting the thread.

Well done for finding your way to a forum on TERF island!

I don't know who that writer is but to have that in the NYT is a big deal

Ross Douthat is a major writer and commenter. Douthat's book, The Decadent Society was well received. He comments on a range of social issues including contested chronic illness (Lyme Disease) and pain and wrote about them in The Deep Places: A Memoir of Illness and Discovery.

news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/01/ross-douthats-wrenching-lyme-disease-battle/

Looking at the crowdfunding of the women's Cicle race, and the number of legal cases that FWR and other concerned citizens are funding at present, I wonder if the subaltern counterpublics need further exploration to understand what is happening or if it's just different mechanisms for the same old actions.

I'm still thinking about Douthat's piece and wondering what impact it will have.

@PaleBlueMoonlight

That is interesting, thank you.Dare I ask what the most liked comment was?

Interestingly, that #2 most liked bumped up to #1. Previous #3 remains at #3

Previous #1, now #2 is attached.