School is encouraging gender neutral instead of ‘girls’

[Dinosaurhearmeroar]

Hi everyone,

I work at an all girls school and the senior team has advised that we try to stick to gender neutral language when we can e.g Good morning everyone / year 8 etc.

The senior team said that if we use ‘girls’ without thinking and without malice intent then they will support us.

I purposefully go out of my way to say girls because that’s what they are. I will continue to say this. Am I being unreasonable here? I don’t want to get in hot water but I also don’t want to have to change my language for about 3 students in a school of over 1,000.

Any thoughts/ feedback welcome!

Thank you

@AlisonDonut

Is it called 'x school for girls'?

That would match mine :P

Newspaper worthy.
How sinister of them.

@Squareteabags

You should be aware through the SEN register of the students suffering from gender dysphoria. Therefore you should have advice on how to deal with these children and how to address them, as decided between the school, child, parents and any health professionals.

When dealing with these students please remember they are confused teenagers usually suffering from a collection of issues; autism, trauma, ADHD as well as dysphoria.

If you are dealing with any other children I don’t see why you should modify your language, in fact I think it sets a dreadful precedent.

So it's ok to not use concise and accurate language with children who have sen?

Why do we never hear this crap in relation to male institutions? Scouts, boys' schools etc.

If TWAW, then it stands to reason TMAM ( they aren't, neither is, but for this argument that's by the by).

How many boys' schools are relabelling toilets or telling teachers to say "good morning everyone" instead of "good morning boys"?
🤔

@Justkeeppedaling

Why do we never hear this crap in relation to male institutions? Scouts, boys' schools etc.

If TWAW, then it stands to reason TMAM ( they aren't, neither is, but for this argument that's by the by).

How many boys' schools are relabelling toilets or telling teachers to say "good morning everyone" instead of "good morning boys"?
🤔

We do! My school is all boys and we have done exactly the same

@Justkeeppedaling

Why do we never hear this crap in relation to male institutions? Scouts, boys' schools etc.

If TWAW, then it stands to reason TMAM ( they aren't, neither is, but for this argument that's by the by).

How many boys' schools are relabelling toilets or telling teachers to say "good morning everyone" instead of "good morning boys"?
🤔

This is exactly what is happening in our school. Advised to say team instead of guys or boys and to say your child not your son, pupils instead of boys

Please don't change your approach. Validating this nonsense harms them. None can escape their sex. I understand for some this is a cause of suffering but avoidance of reality is not the solution.

This is exactly what is happening in our school. Advised to say team instead of guys or boys and to say your child not your son, pupils instead of boys

Well in someways that makes me glad - at least there's equality there!

There doesn't seem to be as much fuss made about it though - unless it's all kicking off on Dadsnet?

@Cuck00soup

Hmm. I'm as GC as they come but make a point of addressing my all female staff group as "team" and not girls or ladies.

"Girls" can sound belittling depending upon how it's delivered. Of course, I'm not saying that's why this particular school has made the change.

Yes, because grown women are not girls and ladies is not a neutral term. Both may therefore be seen as inappropriate in your setting. But we are talking about actual girls attending a girls school. The use of the word girls is both correct and appropriate.

Furthermore, we have known for decades that where gender-neutral language is used, people typically perceive that as a reference to a male person.

For example, chairperson or spokesperson elicits a picture of a man in most people, that's why the use of chairwoman or spokeswoman is much better in changing people's perception of these roles as not being for males by default.

I'm really wondering now if this the school DD goes to...they seem very invested in gender ideology. For example, on International Womens Day they put up a Facebook post about four inspirational women, complete with quotes from them. Which is lovely, but one of the women quoted was Marsha P Johnson who was a gay man who performed drag - definitely NOT a woman, and definitely not trans either (although I believe some activists have posthumously transed him) I sent a very factual email regarding this to the school and have yet to receive a reply. It's really disappointing that out of all the amazing women in history they couldn't find just four to quote, but had to shoehorn a man in there...I despair.

We've had a bit of creep of this at my girls' school.. Head Girl has become head student. The toilet are now 'gender neutral' (luckily not a safeguarding issue in a girls' school, just pointless virtue signalling). The school has finally allowed trousers (good!) But introduced it as a 'gender neutral uniform option' wtf?!? I make a point of using girls and young women as much as possible. I can't support them becoming dirty words.

@MsGoodenough I suspect I may have worked at the same school...

@Whatalovelydaffodil

It's the transboys and nonbinary pupils they'll be thinking of. There are far more of those around than transgirls

I think you're right, but we've endes up in a very strange situation when girls can't be girls at a girls' school. Why are the transboys and non-binary students at that school? I wonder what kind of language their admissions office use!

They are at that school probably because until a short time ago they had no feelings of dysphoria. Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria is rife among teenage girls who previously never showed any discomfort with their sex.

A school near me is called XYZ School for Girls and has the initials for that on their jumpers, blazers and various other bits of uniform and kit.

If they were ever to change the name I'm sure there would be a storm from parents about the cost and waste.

The way I see it there is no reason not to change the way you address people. It doesn't harm you or anyone else but using non gender neutral terms could potentially harm the mental health of trans people.

Meh, can't really get worked up about this one.
Don't get me wrong, if they were saying don't ever use 'girls' on the basis of hurting a tiny minority's feelings, I'd 100% agree with you, in the same way I am heavily against all the excessively wordy, confusing, inaccurate and sometimes offensive phrasing (assigned female at birth/women, non binary, transmen etc/bleeders) used now in medical journals/news articles/period adverts etc. when "women" (or even "women and other people who use these products) works fine. But unlike those examples, asking you to address the group as students isn't incorrect, more complicated or offensive, so I can't really see an issue.

Technically if you have a sixth form isn't addressing them collectively as 'girls' inaccurate anyway, as a number of them should really be addressed as women, and not doing so is a bit infantalising? (addressing a group of women as girls is usually something MN is very against!).

Plus, isn't one of the issues people always quote when companies suggest putting pronouns in emails that reminding females of their sex (and the lower expectations placed upon them because of it) leads to worse performance? An argument could definitely be made as to why you need to remind them of their sex constantly when it isn't relevant in most situations.

@mamamia1234

The way I see it there is no reason not to change the way you address people. It doesn't harm you or anyone else but using non gender neutral terms could potentially harm the mental health of trans people.

If using accurate words harms the mental health of trans people, can I suggest that whatever other treatment they are getting for their 'trans' -ness isn't working very well?

How can you use the word 'girls' with malice if you are referring to a class or year group of girls?

Is girls now a pejorative term?

I work at an all girls school and the senior team has advised that we try to stick to gender neutral language when we can e.g Good morning everyone / year 8 etc.

This is so so deeply sexist - as if being a girl or a woman is something to be covered up, denied, or ignored.

What is wrong with being female? We have gone backwards from the 1970s.