School is encouraging gender neutral instead of ‘girls’

[Dinosaurhearmeroar]

Hi everyone,

I work at an all girls school and the senior team has advised that we try to stick to gender neutral language when we can e.g Good morning everyone / year 8 etc.

The senior team said that if we use ‘girls’ without thinking and without malice intent then they will support us.

I purposefully go out of my way to say girls because that’s what they are. I will continue to say this. Am I being unreasonable here? I don’t want to get in hot water but I also don’t want to have to change my language for about 3 students in a school of over 1,000.

Any thoughts/ feedback welcome!

Thank you

My daughter's all-girl school does this. It's all "students", "child" "they". I complained about it on an online meeting with the parents of my daughter's year. The head claimed to be a big feminist, but they want to be "inclusive". They want to be "inclusive" by being ashamed of female words! The school is even called X High School for Girls. I've been known to cross out "child" on forms and change it to "daughter".

I'm happy to say that the PTA uses "girl" and "daughter" all the time in their newsletters. I guess the school isn't in a position to impose their ideology on the PTA.

Hmm. I'm as GC as they come but make a point of addressing my all female staff group as "team" and not girls or ladies.

"Girls" can sound belittling depending upon how it's delivered. Of course, I'm not saying that's why this particular school has made the change.

@Dinosaurhearmeroar

I just know they won’t be - these conversations are not happening in boys’ schools.

They certainly are, I'm afraid.

@Dinosaurhearmeroar

I just know they won’t be - these conversations are not happening in boys’ schools.

Yes they are - I'm a teacher in one!

@Whatalovelydaffodil

It's the transboys and nonbinary pupils they'll be thinking of. There are far more of those around than transgirls

I think you're right, but we've endes up in a very strange situation when girls can't be girls at a girls' school. Why are the transboys and non-binary students at that school? I wonder what kind of language their admissions office use!

Because you can't suddenly ask a pupil to leave a school due to gender identity... it may not be in the best interests of that child.

There is only one state school in our city that is single sex for girls, I do wonder if there is pressure for it to go co-ed?

Yes of course, 20:00cafedesreves. I just meant that the transboys and non-binary students are there because they are girls. they are female children and it's not wrong to call them girls.
I wonder how the school defines who is a girl during the application process.

@Whatalovelydaffodil

Yes of course, 20:00cafedesreves. I just meant that the transboys and non-binary students are there because they are girls. they are female children and it's not wrong to call them girls. I wonder how the school defines who is a girl during the application process.

I agree with you... and have issues with it. However we have a trans pupil at our school who has spoken about how incredibly hard they find it to be referred to as "boys" and spoken very eloquently about it. A very quiet pupil who never takes the limelight or makes a bit deal. So I really do believe their pain.

My daughters 'girls' school calls everyone young people! All emails, even specific child related ones address the 'young people' as they and their, even when they are most definitely a she/her.
Spoke to a trans friend who said that my daughter is a she/her and that deserves just as much respect as their use of he/him.
Most of my daughters friends just roll their eyes and joke one day it will be called x school for people with a cervix!
But I do feel it's almost like teaching the child to not want to be happy being a 'girl'
Apparently the boys school in the same trust call them boys and he/him!!!

@Dinosaurhearmeroar I wonder if we work in the same school...

@Dinosaurhearmeroar

Hi everyone,

I work at an all girls school and the senior team has advised that we try to stick to gender neutral language when we can e.g Good morning everyone / year 8 etc.

The senior team said that if we use ‘girls’ without thinking and without malice intent then they will support us.

I purposefully go out of my way to say girls because that’s what they are. I will continue to say this. Am I being unreasonable here? I don’t want to get in hot water but I also don’t want to have to change my language for about 3 students in a school of over 1,000.

Any thoughts/ feedback welcome!

Thank you

How do the non-binary 3 feel? Sometimes there are schools with only 3 black pupils or 3 disabled pupils out of 1000 but they deserve as much thought as any others. I am also skeptical about such changes but I would be tempted to see how the pupils feel by asking them.

Hi - I have worked in an all girls school.

Normally I used ‘girls’, but there were two classes I came across with a non-binary or trans individual in. For these classes I did try to avoid using ‘girls’ as knowing the backgrounds of these children, they were both going through a hellish time with gender dysphoria and confusion. I did it out of sympathy and support for the individuals despite being GC. I could see that emphasising their sex would remind them of their pain - not conducive to a good learning environment.

I did forget sometimes, and I didn’t apologise, as I felt that would bring unnecessary attention to the issue when both individuals just wanted not to be noticed. And an apology would have indicated that I was wrong to the other girls.

@Cuck00soup

Hmm. I'm as GC as they come but make a point of addressing my all female staff group as "team" and not girls or ladies.

"Girls" can sound belittling depending upon how it's delivered. Of course, I'm not saying that's why this particular school has made the change.

Those are presumably adults though not girls. So a different senario.

Yes there are several studies that show this can happen but that is not the reason unfortunately. It’s this bloody gender ideology and it really frustrates me - my headteacher actually said if a student doesn’t want to be called female… I was in disbelief - sex is an unchangeable and biological fact. She doesn’t understand the language.

@Squareteabags

Hi - I have worked in an all girls school.

Normally I used ‘girls’, but there were two classes I came across with a non-binary or trans individual in. For these classes I did try to avoid using ‘girls’ as knowing the backgrounds of these children, they were both going through a hellish time with gender dysphoria and confusion. I did it out of sympathy and support for the individuals despite being GC. I could see that emphasising their sex would remind them of their pain - not conducive to a good learning environment.

I did forget sometimes, and I didn’t apologise, as I felt that would bring unnecessary attention to the issue when both individuals just wanted not to be noticed. And an apology would have indicated that I was wrong to the other girls.

Yes this is my approach

You should be aware through the SEN register of the students suffering from gender dysphoria. Therefore you should have advice on how to deal with these children and how to address them, as decided between the school, child, parents and any health professionals.

When dealing with these students please remember they are confused teenagers usually suffering from a collection of issues; autism, trauma, ADHD as well as dysphoria.

If you are dealing with any other children I don’t see why you should modify your language, in fact I think it sets a dreadful precedent.

If a school is asking for pronouns on a form I would see that as a red flag.
It is a safeguarding issue to social transition children without the parents knowledge or to keep it a secret.
If your school asks for pronouns on a form send them this from Safe Schools Alliance (Factsheet 2)
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/

You may find this a useful resource OP.

https://internal-journal.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856/full?fbclid=IwAR1GmMyg9yC58i3SargXSSpsw1NgaVoD6raB8cz40YuEgx9VxFTr5A4m4OQ

I'm just sick of this language erasure and I'm not standing for it any more. This paper is like a passport. I keep a printed out version in my work bag. I've posted a copy on the coffee room notice board. I've given copies to colleagues. I sent it in reply to a round robin email about a certain new policy being developed and have been invited onto the working group as a result. (Something of a poison chalice I might say but that's for another thread).

I'm NHS. The hospital has an intranet workplace sort of mini Facebook site. When I saw gender instead of sex listed as one of the protected characteristics I stuck my head above the parapet and pointed out that SEX is the protected characteristic and while I was at it I linked this paper. Guess what. The Communications officer apologised to me and promised to get it right in future. True, no one has "liked" my comment but no one has disputed either.
Anyway I did it and I now feel more emboldened as I haven't been challenged. Like I said. Treat it like a passport. Quote it as necessary.

"We suggest consideration of the following questions: How can I be clear? How can I include the people who should be included and exclude the people who should be excluded? How can I ensure that people understand what I mean and can readily recognize themselves? How can I avoid dehumanizing language? Does it make sense to apply a gendered understanding of words or a sexed understanding? Am I engaging in cultural imperialism or improper use of privilege by requiring others to use language in a particular way? How does language usage support or undermine the rights of women and children?"

I'm just longing for the opportunity to accuse someone of cultural imperialism and improper use of privilege.

So print off that paper and use it well OP. Parts of it may be suitable for discussion with your pupils. DD had a friend over at Christmas so I made sure she had a printed off copy to take back to Uni as it is relevant to her course.

What's shocking is the lack of due diligence. Schools unthinkingly following adult activist groups demands, ignoring everything they know about child and adolescent development and the need for children to come to terms with changing bodies through puberty.

The Cass Review's interim report into the Gender Identity Service for children is shocking - substandard care in almost every aspect of the service:
cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

Schools ought to have a read of this and consider whether they should be cheerleading these levels of social contagion given that basic standard of ethical medical care children have the right to expect is apparently missing in this area.

Next thing there won’t be girls schools at all! 😕

Schools will become co-ed. I had considered singles for my dc but am glad now that we didn't get in.

I posted Transgender Trend's blog about the psychologically damaging impact of social affirmation on teenagers upthread. The impact on little children is equally (if not more) devastating as these are such young children being manipulated by adults:

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

Well worth passing these onto any clueless senior leaders in thrall to the ideology.

I despair for the world we live in.
Fuck off erasing women.
My DD is 1, I pray this absolute snowflake bullshit is resolved by then. She can be who ever she wants. I won’t push anything on her, but she is a girl. She had better well be treated like one. Unless she stipulates different. Then, she can be that way. In the meantime, respect her.

@tabbycatstripy

Explain that you don't understand how the word 'girls' for female adolescents could ever carry malicious intent and you will use ordinary language as appropriate. You don't understand what they are trying to achieve by preventing you from using ordinary words and then promising you 'support' if you do so 'accidentally'. It more appears, from your position, like they are introducing a new disciplinary offence without consultation.

Please don't do this. Legally, requiring you to call your class 'everyone' not 'girls' is a reasonable management instruction and failure to follow one is a already something that can take you down the disciplinary route. It's not as if they are asking you to call girls boys or vice versa either. You are inevitably going to accidentally do it (I know I would, it's such a habit!), but complaining before hand will make your genuine accidents look deliberate and get you into trouble on what isn't something that affects girls enough to wreck your career for.

I will say that I think only one of the students has gender dysphoria and she is also on the spectrum - I do believe she will find her way and end up a lesbian woman.

The others are genuinely just confused and/or jumping on a bandwagon - I have had several girls request a name change "just because."