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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boris Johnson just stated that biology dictates what is a man / woman

126 replies

NoWordForFluffy · 23/03/2022 12:39

Just now on PMQs.

Has he ever come out and said that before?

OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 14:50

@MoonOnASpoon

Starmer is never going to say it. Nobody on his front bench is ever going to say it. They are completely, irreversibly captured.

I don't agree, you can tell Starmer is like a rabbit in the headlights on this issue. He's not captured by trans ideology, but by the daft idea that you have to say what a load of advisors and focus groups tell you to instead of having actual principles and standing up for them. He tries to bumble out the right things to say to avoid upsetting Young People. When he realises that the bullshit is finally going down the toilet, and he's been upsetting Women and People with Logical Reasoning Skills, a larger demographic, he will switch.

Well, either way, he will never have my vote. If he can't stand with women when the going is tough, he can't be trusted at all.
tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 14:52

'Anyone who votes Tory on the grounds of this 'statement' alone doesn't actually give a fuck about women's rights - apart from those of rich, white ones with a UK passport.'

I'm a white woman who comes from a poor background. Like nearly everyone who lives in this country, I have a UK passport. I'm not giving up my right to call myself what I am, and speak according to what I can see, for any other cause, and I am not ashamed of that.

tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 14:53

'A shitload of ‘Boris’s ‘biological women’ will be facing real poverty with the cost of living crisis, and what is he actually doing about it? Fuck all!. His party have cut widowed parents benefits to the bone, for example. And one woman lost out on first place in a swimming competition.'

You are just not listening, are you?

Women's sports are not 'swimming competitions'. They are the pinnacle of female physical achievement. If you don't care about that, own it. I care.

user1497207191 · 23/03/2022 14:54

When Labour can't say what a woman is, Boris has just played his top trump card and has said what the majority of people believe! Call me cynical, but is the timing to coincide with Rishi's failures re cost of living crisis, to divert attention and try to claw back some popularity?

Cuck00soup · 23/03/2022 14:59

@MoonOnASpoon

Well said Boris.

I don't want to vote for him and I've never voted Tory, BUT I don't think he's stupid. If anyone understands bullshit and how it functions, it's BJ, and he could join the bullshitters easily if he was so inclined. So I do think this matters symbolically in that as country leader and party leader, it's a big signifier of which way the wind is blowing. He may be disingenuous but he wouldn't say it if he didn't know it reflected reality and how people feel. In other words (although of course it will be represented that way) this isn't him being right-wing, it's him riding the zeitgeist and offering a clear-eyed view of reality to those who want to vote for it. And when Starmer realises that, he'l be next.

This is important. Boris isn't an idealist - remember that he allegedly wrote two newspaper articles arguing both for and against Brexit - and went for the one he thought would make him PM.

If he says TWANW it's because he thinks he's picked the winning side.

WouldBeGood · 23/03/2022 15:05

Even better @Cuck00soup

Fairislefandango · 23/03/2022 15:14

Got to say, though I also think this is true, it is not at all helpful to have boris saying it too cos (a) him saying something has no bearing whatsoever on whether he actually believes it or not

Do you honestly think that Keir Starmer actually believes TWAW? Do you not think that if he were in the market for a girlfriend, or a one-night stand, he'd be incapable of identifying a woman for such purposes?

Tories do not have a monopoly on saying things they don't believe. Besides - do you really think Boris doesn't believe there's a biological difference between men and women?

lecreusetpeppermill · 23/03/2022 15:22

Tories lie.

Tories don't value women or any particular kind of equality.
Anyone who believes this was hopeless anyway Grin

SapphosRock · 23/03/2022 15:27

I bet Carrie has been on Mumsnet.

Thank you Carrie if you're reading this 👋

MarshaBradyo · 23/03/2022 15:28

@tabbycatstripy

'A shitload of ‘Boris’s ‘biological women’ will be facing real poverty with the cost of living crisis, and what is he actually doing about it? Fuck all!. His party have cut widowed parents benefits to the bone, for example. And one woman lost out on first place in a swimming competition.'

You are just not listening, are you?

Women's sports are not 'swimming competitions'. They are the pinnacle of female physical achievement. If you don't care about that, own it. I care.

Yes and it’s tough to see the efforts women go to to undermine other women
MoonOnASpoon · 23/03/2022 15:32

Tories don't value women or any particular kind of equality.

I think this is an interesting one. I am not a Tory by any means, I'm a lifelong lefty (minus the SJW and GI wibble) but I've gradually come to see that – for reasons I haven't really got to the bottom of – being left-wing does not make people any more respectful of women or any less misogynist than being right-wing, and it's the Tories who have had female leaders, not Labour.

I'm not saying that therefore they respect or value women in general, but I do think it's more complex than "Tories don't value women"". On a personal level the absolute worst misogynists I've known were left-wing. Misogyny is everywhere and I don't think any political party is free of it including of course the WE party.

dudsville · 23/03/2022 15:36

I'm under no allusion, he's doing it for my vote. I loathe politics but he's got it.

PerkyBlinder · 23/03/2022 15:50

@Eeksteek

I think trans issues are really important, but they affect such a small minority of people of any gender. Isn’t it more important to deal with, say, the shitshow of a cost of living crisis that affects everybody, than a trans issue that affects a few thousand people? This is ‘common-sense’ washing. Making the Tory’s look like they understand everyday people so they can carry on lining their privileged pockets with public cash at the expense of the rest of us. Johnson is very good at this. He lost his way a bit with the pandemic, because he was forced to address a real issue and couldn't find an alternative non-issue big enough in anyone’s mind to hide behind. But now he’s going to gain support for being behind female-at-birth women? He doesn’t even know how many kids he has, he’s created a string of single parent families behind him and is pretty close to the definition of patriarchal misogynist. And he’s going for the vote of ‘biological women’? Bloody hypocrite. This is purely about dividing the left. He doesn’t care about women, assigned a birth or not, as his relationship history more than shows (to be fair he doesn’t much care about anyone. Which is equality of a sort, I suppose). I’m sorry to say, it will probably work.
No. They affect everyone both male and female but mostly female.

Fundamentally having a stance which is denying material reality and forces others to also deny that reality takes us into 1984 territory of being forced to deny the evidence of your eyes and ears. Thus it breaks down democracy - it is authoritarian in nature because of what it forces us to do in denying something so fundamental. Law cannot function without clear definitions based on things which can be proven with empirical evidence. Gender as an identity cannot be proven and there is no third gamete - i.e. there is no third sex. This affects everyone.

Bringing in policy which accepts TWAW results in the breakdown of safeguarding, it actively enables rape and sexual abuse to occur (see cases in prisons and NHS - I just hope this can get rolled back before a massive).

It results in women losing jobs and positions if they speak out. It results in women's sports becoming pointless as it'll just be full of males identifying as women or why are all male records in any sport requiring physical strength and speed so much faster than female ones? It results in men taking prizes which were there to recognise women and the separate difficulties they face. Women are not men with less testosterone.

It's not a fringe policy as it affects ALL women, our daughters, our mothers, our grandmothers and everyone.

Fairislefandango · 23/03/2022 15:58

Tories lie.

People lie. Especially politicians (of whichever party).

Tories don't value women or any particular kind of equality. Anyone who believes this was hopeless anyway.

Who knows what (if anything) they value. It's all very well calling this a cynical vote winning ploy, but at least the fact they think it will win votes means that they actually recognise that the majority of the electorate don't want self ID and don't believe TWAW. Why can't Labour see that? Or do they see it but not give a shit what the majority of voters think?

JesusSufferingFuck22 · 23/03/2022 16:00

Please don't vote Tory because of this.

potniatheron · 23/03/2022 16:05

Well I for one am relieved to see that the Prime Minister of GB & NI understands and is unafraid to articulate this extremely basic fact.

The vast majority of voters of all stripes agree with him.

It's only sad that we've come to such a pass that he had to actually say something so BASIC, and that people are remarking on it. Maybe next week he'll bravely announce that the sky is blue.

Have we really as a culture gone so far out of our senses?

Now if the Leader of the Opposition would finally work out what a woman is, then I might feel safe contemplating putting the reins of Government in his hands.

PollyPutTheKettleOnKettleOn · 23/03/2022 16:07

Boris Johnson has a track record of standing by what he says.

And I'm sure he's not considering votes for a potential election at all.

Lottapianos · 23/03/2022 16:19

'Please don't vote Tory because of this.'

Oh Christ no. And please don't go thinking that he gives a shiny shit about women. He only does or says things that are to his advantage

Westfacing · 23/03/2022 16:25

@JesusSufferingFuck22

Please don't vote Tory because of this.
Who can we vote for?
Fairislefandango · 23/03/2022 16:27

People would be voting for him to avoid getting Self ID, not because they think he's some great defender of women!

tabbycatstripy · 23/03/2022 16:29

'Please don't vote Tory because of this.'

I will. My MP (Tory) has answered me in calm and courteous terms. Has emailed the Minister for Equalities, has been supportive of my concerns and is going to meet with me.

Labour politicians have called me a dinosaur and suggested I am some sort of fool for knowing who does and who does not have a cervix.

They have lost my vote.

WhoKnewWho · 23/03/2022 16:31

Hmm, Ive always thought that he says the right things, so that he can carry on doing the wrong things.. with relative impunity.

motherofthelittlescreamingone · 23/03/2022 16:33

I'll have to vote Tory because of this (or run as an independent on a non corruption/more honesty but tory sympathetic ticket - I am considering it in my safe seat). I cannot vote for any other party, because they have made clear they do not want my vote. I understand that others will not understand this, but I don't think that giving away women's sex based rights is reversible, so I believe this is in the best interests of me, my daughter and all women. I agree that poverty is an issue for women and that austerity has been a major issue, so I do this with a heavy heart and am campaigning behind the scenes for a better tory party. I have tried to campaign for a better Labour Party, but they have made clear they do not want people like me!

UnashamedLabelHo · 23/03/2022 16:35

With Johnson and Keli Badenoch, the government is better than the opposition for me at the moment on women’s rights. Johnson won’t shag a transwoman, no matter cheese and red wine he guzzled so I fully believe he thinks biology is important. For once he’s telling the truth.

UnashamedLabelHo · 23/03/2022 16:35

*Kemi not Keli.