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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women’s Aid statement on single-sex spaces

54 replies

TheCurrywurstPrion · 22/03/2022 14:01

www.womensaid.org.uk/womens-aid-single-sex-services-statement/

I’m cautiously optimistic about this statement, which at least recognises that single-sex spaces can be legal and that some women and children have a need for them. There’s still more emphasis on ensuring trans needs are met, but I think this might be the first time that there’s been some balancing vis-a-vis women only spaces.

OP posts:
littlbrowndog · 22/03/2022 14:06

Yes. At last

Fluffymule · 22/03/2022 14:07

"The provision of single-sex domestic abuse services is a founding principle of Women’s Aid, and we will defend it"

This is an important statement to lead with. Well done to them.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/03/2022 14:18

Well done to Women's Aid.
.. the trend towards the gender neutral commissioning of services... is leading to women-led, single sex services losing funding

So pleased to see this spelled out - this is what happens when women are consulted rather than men about our needs.

DameHelena · 22/03/2022 14:21

Good for them. I decided this year to start regular donations to them. I thought their position then was fair and balanced, and this reads to me like more of the same; absolutely in support of trans survivors of abuse and violence while at the same time defending women's single-sex spaces and facilities.
I feel that my money is going to a genuine good cause.

CoraggioCara · 22/03/2022 14:25

Excellent.

That is a clear, measured, compassionate, authoritative statement.

TiddlesTheTiger · 22/03/2022 14:28

Am I too cynical?

Sounds like they support individual Women's Aid groups to include transwomen if they want, possibly because they would otherwise lose funding.

ResisterRex · 22/03/2022 15:00

The response from Galop:

galop.org.uk/news/galops-statement-on-womens-aids-position-on-the-inclusion-of-trans-women-in-single-sex-services/

"Women’s Aid has released its position on the inclusion of trans women in the single-sex services within its membership.
As Women’s Aid points out in its statement, the violence against women and girls sector, and the services it provides to support women and girls who are victims of domestic abuse, have been built by and for women over the last five decades – and some of the women who have worked and volunteered to create those services have been trans women.
Trans women have always been part of this movement, both as service users and service providers. They must not be erased from this narrative and we are mindful of the impact this statement is likely to have on those trans and non-binary people who are currently working in or accessing these services.
Galop supports the ongoing commissioning of specialist services, including those run by and for all women, and we do not see trans inclusion as being in conflict with this. We are concerned that, in approaching trans-inclusion in this way, Women’s Aid is inaccurately conflating trans women with perpetrators of abuse and violence, and is doing so as a voice of power towards a disempowered minority group with far less influence and platform.
These positions often fail to acknowledge or understand the realities of the abuse and violence faced by trans and non-binary people in the UK, or how those victims are left in the wake of that abuse. Every day, Galop works with trans and non-binary people who are victims of domestic and sexual abuse. What we consistently see through both our frontline work and our research is that trans people do not have safe, trans-inclusive spaces to go to when they need to flee. There is a narrative that trans people in refuge spaces and other women’s services are a danger to other service users – whereas what we see is that trans women are often at risk of victimisation and assault in those accommodation services that are open to them.
As a result of this lack of safe provision for trans and non-binary people, we see trans people that we work with having to choose between staying in dangerous and abusive situations or facing dangerous and damaging alternatives, including homelessness. The current system is failing trans people in this country, and this statement by Women’s Aid is a reflection of that failure.
Domestic abuse services exist in order to support and protect victims of abuse. Women’s Aid represents the vast majority of these services across England and Wales, many of which we know are already not open to trans women and non-binary people who are victims of abuse and violence. If these services remain closed to these victims, and no other services are provided as an alternative, then this approach condones and is complicit in leaving trans people without a way to reach safety.
We agree with Women’s Aid that all survivors should have access to services that are right and safe for them, based on their needs. There should not be a hierarchy of victimhood and there should be provision of enough high-quality, survivor-centred, safe, and specialist services for all victims and survivors of abuse and violence in this country.
No one should have to choose between having a place to live, and living free from abuse. No one should experience sexual assault or transphobic hate crimes in hostels because they had nowhere else to go. We urge those who speak of their desire for trans people to live in safety and dignity to push for the provision of trans-inclusive specialist services in light of Women’s Aid’s statement today."

VestofAbsurdity · 22/03/2022 15:07

In other words Galop acknowledge the need for specific services but won't provide/fund raise for those services but will just insist that the existing services are forced to change and if that means women who need those services are disenfranchised from them - tough shit.

FunnyTalks · 22/03/2022 15:13

I think this is very hopeful. Watching this space.

FreelanceFiona · 22/03/2022 15:14

The fact that Galop don't even mention women and their needs says everything. Total capitulation.

I'm really pleased to read that from Women's Aid. Denying the reality of sex helps absolutely noone.

FemaleAndLearning · 22/03/2022 15:18

I don't think that women see men who say they are women as predators just that men in these spaces are very triggering.
Who are the trans people they talk of that have been in the movement for the last 50 years to help, support and raise funds for women?

ResisterRex · 22/03/2022 15:20

They say:

We agree with Women’s Aid that all survivors should have access to services that are right and safe for them, based on their needs.

Needs have to be evidenced. So let's see the evidence and then we can see what funding is required. I'm also curious to know which trans women have always been a part of building our refuges as I've missed that part of history but I don't know how.

Artichokeleaves · 22/03/2022 15:24

we see trans people that we work with having to choose between staying in dangerous and abusive situations or facing dangerous and damaging alternatives, including homelessness.

and one refuge manager has spoken on radio about seeing female people who won't come into the refuge or access services, and we have seen MNetters right here who have had to become homeless because those refuges were mixed sex with no tolerance of other options.

NO ONE wants TQ+ people to not have services.

The must equally be an acceptance that wanting female people not to have female only services would be an equally vile and harmful attitude.

BOTH sets of needs can be met. They just cannot be force teamed and shoehorned into one service because male people wish it, and into a situation where one group loses services and experiences those 'damaging' consequences claimed to be worried about above.

If they are only a concern if they happen to male service users then my sympathy starts to get low very fast.

whitecreambluejug · 22/03/2022 15:26

I am not so optimistic. This is the Nancy Kelly position. Pretending there is not a problem as services can be single sex if they want. Meanwhile, in reality, single sex services quietly in practice disappear. Allowing members to choose to remove single sex spaces will lead to them disappearing over time. This is happening already. The writing is on the wall.

There needs to be a strong statement that every woman should have access to single sex spaces. Every part of the country should have single sex services that women can access.

And there should be specialist services for trans people who need them.

timeisnotaline · 22/03/2022 15:32

Who are all these transwomen who have been selflessly volunteering at women’s aid, answering phones and providing counselling, manning support services? Who are any of them? Are there any of them? How many such services do galup run, given their language re their tireless work to support these? Why not ask for funding to provide these spaces? So many questions.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/03/2022 15:36

@timeisnotaline

Who are all these transwomen who have been selflessly volunteering at women’s aid, answering phones and providing counselling, manning support services? Who are any of them? Are there any of them? How many such services do galup run, given their language re their tireless work to support these? Why not ask for funding to provide these spaces? So many questions.
Indeed. Those of us who've been around for many years know this is pure bobbins. Yet another example of a lie being repeated until the hard of thinking believe it.
TheCurrywurstPrion · 22/03/2022 15:49

@TiddlesTheTiger

Am I too cynical?

Sounds like they support individual Women's Aid groups to include transwomen if they want, possibly because they would otherwise lose funding.

I don’t think you are too cynical, but I think Galop have just demonstrated how different an out and out, extremist transactivist organisation looks, compared with Women’s Aid, who have at least acknowledged that single sex exists as a concept, and is both legal and needed.

I’m disappointed they haven’t specifically said they will ensure single-sex services are available everywhere, but at least they have rolled back from the abdolutist stance that single “gender” is all that’s necessary and women who point out that they’re failing women are bigots.

Small steps.

OP posts:
MaChienEstUnDick · 22/03/2022 15:59

Oh I think that's a great statement. Which puts even more clear blue water between Scotland and England, to Scotland's detriment. You couldn't make this statement in Scotland, ScotGov would pull your funding...

ResisterRex · 22/03/2022 16:02

WA say: "provision of single-sex services is a founding principle of Women's Aid, and we will defend it". Point 1. And they will signpost transwomen to specialist services for them.

Where there is need and evidence of that need, groups like Galop need to do what the women's sector did and build a service based on need and evidence.

Let's see the evidence.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/03/2022 16:03

What I like about the statement is that it's nuanced. They've consulted, they've listened, they've thought and they've centred women and girls while making some compromises.
It's so different from the normal male dominated aggressive response that you see in response from trans extremist groups - hyperbole, falsehoods, blaming and an implicit aggression.

TiddlesTheTiger · 22/03/2022 16:11

I think they are taking a softly, softly approach by telling us they value single-sex services but they may not be possible.
And it's not their fault, it's the funders.

Abitofalark · 22/03/2022 17:00

Never heard of Galop. What is it?

Hasselhoffsheadband · 22/03/2022 17:02

I am really heartened by that Women's Aid statement. I hope JKR retweets it as well.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/03/2022 17:04

Never heard of Galop. What is it?

An organisation like Stonewall, purporting to be for "LGBTQ" but focussing primarily on trans rights activism.

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