Hospital told police patient not raped because attacker transgender

[Snoodsy]

A hospital told the police that a patient could not have been raped because her alleged attacker was trans, the House of Lords has heard.

The attack took place a year ago and the woman reported it but when officers contacted the hospital, which has not been named, they were told “that there was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened”.

Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne, who raised the issue during a debate on single-sex wards, continued: “They forgot that there was CCTV, nurses and observers.

“None the less, it has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that there was a male on the ward and, yes, this rape happened.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

@PermanentTemporary

I do agree that we don't know any of the details. I believe that a victim of rape was treated appallingly, I don't have any doubt about that. But eg the hospital cannot have said verbatim 'there was no male in the hospital' - they could have said there was no male patient on the ward. So that's one somewhat broad brush moment.

Indeed.

So if the Baroness got that detail wrong (as surely she must have - as you say, there's no way the hospital said what the Baroness claimed) what other details might she have gotten wrong?

Stop insinuating she's a liar based on nothing but your amateur detective Wot I Reckon.

@allmywhat

There are no legal constraints on her ability to name the hospital and police force.

The person who doesn't know what "begging the question" is turns out to believe themselves an expert on the law! How typical.

This is going to be like Wi Spa, isn't it? It never happened and will continue to have never happened, until the day it turns out it unequivocally did happen.

If you'd like to explain why my claim is wrong about the law rather than engage in an ad hom attack, that would be cool too.

Do you have evidence that Baroness Nicholson can't be relied on to tell them truth?

This is going to be like Wi Spa, isn't it? It never happened and will continue to have never happened, until the day it turns out it unequivocally did happen.

I agree.

“The result of Annex B is that hospital trusts inform ward sisters and nurses that if there is a male, as a trans person, in a female ward, and a female patient or anyone complains, they must be told that it is not true - there is no male there,” she [EN] told the upper chamber"

But it would allow the [police force] and [hospital] to clarify what actually happened.

You're really here saying there are no possible prejudicial effects of the police making a statement to the press about what "actually happened" in the rape case they're still investigating. Maybe stop pretending to know what you're talking about?

🙄

'Reviewing Annex B
How can the NHS fulfil its promise of dignity and
privacy for all on single-sex hospital wards?

A briefing reviewing Annex B and suggesting principles and a draft text for revising the policy.
September 2021

sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Reviewing-Annex-B.pdf

Sex Matters is a human-rights organisation campaigning
for clarity about sex in laws, policies and language

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@FunnyTalks
I got Baroness Nicholson’s speech (and Lord Etherton’s ) from Hansard
hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2022-03-16/debates/84C9B6AA-0214-4CEF-A41D-302373BDC190/HealthAndCareBill#contribution-0E3BB87F-8B92-477C-B9BF-6672F71C385D[/quote]
Big thanks!

LBC London radio have just asked people to call in about this I think? Just caught the end of the request

@TeaKlaxon
Yes I agree you should stop your ad hom attacks on BN. Provide evidence of your assertion that she has effectively committed contempt of Parliament by seeking to deliberately mislead the House or withdraw your comments.

If i were the baroness and someone was slandering me I’d be pissed

Just sayin’…

[quote ChazsBrilliantAttitude]@TeaKlaxon
Yes I agree you should stop your ad hom attacks on BN. Provide evidence of your assertion that she has effectively committed contempt of Parliament by seeking to deliberately mislead the House or withdraw your comments.[/quote]
Yep yep

@allmywhat

But it would allow the [police force] and [hospital] to clarify what actually happened.

You're really here saying there are no possible prejudicial effects of the police making a statement to the press about what "actually happened" in the rape case they're still investigating. Maybe stop pretending to know what you're talking about?

🙄

Police forces can decide how much detail to release in response to this claim depending on the constraints on them. They do that all the time in respect of ongoing investigations.

The original claim was that the Baroness naming the police force in itself would prejudice an investigation, which is BS.

@DonNotKeith

LBC London radio have just asked people to call in about this I think? Just caught the end of the request

No offence, but the people that phone in for the other side, are always really thick, how have we got to this point, it's like we've all gone a bit mad. I'm not confident enough to phone in sadly! Hoping that some sensible women and men do. And Peter thatchell, always banging on, can't stand that man.

[quote ChazsBrilliantAttitude]@TeaKlaxon
Yes I agree you should stop your ad hom attacks on BN. Provide evidence of your assertion that she has effectively committed contempt of Parliament by seeking to deliberately mislead the House or withdraw your comments.[/quote]
It's not an ad hom attack to say someone's story has more holes than a block of swiss cheese, and then explain what those holes are.

It is simply impossible that a hospital claimed there were no males in the hospital and the police took it at face value, as the Baroness claimed. If you believe she got that right, I have a bridge to sell you.

It is also highly implausible that it took police a year to examine CCTV or get any indications that someone capable of the crime of rape was present in the ward.

Added to the entirely unnecessary failure to name the hospital and police force, this looks like a story whose full details have not been revealed.

Brilliant woman speaking on there right now

Woman just saying "sex is binary, gender is a social construct" - LBC London -

I find it highly unlikely that a woman of this career and cv, would ever stoop to the kind of behaviour that she is attempting to confront in the political lobby that believes the feelings of males matter more than the lives and safety of females. Obviously if she has stood up in the HoL to say this she has the evidence to say so.

Disgusting slander.

@Artichokeleaves

I find it highly unlikely that a woman of this career and cv, would ever stoop to the kind of behaviour that she is attempting to confront in the political lobby that believes the feelings of males matter more than the lives and safety of females. Obviously if she has stood up in the HoL to say this she has the evidence to say so.

Disgusting slander.

So when she claims the hospital told police that there was no male in the hospital, you believe her?

It is also highly implausible that it took police a year to examine CCTV

Is it? The police don't exactly seem too fussed about the crime of rape these days even outside of circumstances where the perp doesn't claim a teflon identity. Remember all those rape kits that languished without being processed?

As to the specific point of CCTV. It wasn't too long ago that a major hindrance in the case of missing child Andrew Gosden was due to the police not bothering to chase up CCTV for many months until it was too late and most of it wiped over and lost.

So actually no, I don't find it implausible.

None the less, it has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that there was a male on the ward

This is what she meant

I think it might be time to invoke Bunbury

It's on record that NHS categorises both staff and patients by gender ID not sex.

We know transwomen mostly retain their penises.

We know males rape females.

We know sex segregation is an important aspect of safeguarding.

No evidence has ever supported the idea that males of a particular gender ID are any less likely to commit male pattern crimes.

We know NHS don't always handle criticism well (Google NHS and whistle-blower).

Anyone who has ever been in hospital /had a loved one in hospital will know that staffing is often extremely stretched and there would be opportunities for a rape to take place.

I believe Baroness Nicholson but even if I didn't I'm not stupid. I can see the problems that the above situation creates.

this looks like a story whose full details have not been revealed

Really? You don't say! 

TeaKlaxon I'm afraid I don't find your insinuation that the details of this case should be made public immediately or it didn't happen to be at all convincing. I do find certain particulars about your use of language and the fact this appears to be your first set of posts under that name quite telling though.