Woman's Hour on IWD - what is a woman?

[WinterTrees]

This question has just come up in a discussion between Emma Barnett and Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Women and Equalities minister.

EB is wonderfully direct and unapologetic. AD ties herself in stuttering knots and ends up sounding extremely foolish.

Worth a listen (if you go onto BBC sounds in the next hour I think you'll be able to scroll back to around 10.24ish?) and worth putting in the WH archive of making up ground in fulfilling their remit.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

The question is asked at 10.22 and was asked by a listener. EB made it clear that several listeners had asked the same thing.

Sorry winter trees cross posted. Want it crazy? Does not make me want to support Labour any time soon.

Apparently the answer to "what is a woman?" is "context-dependent".

Dodds came across as someone trying to mislead but bungling it.

Just seen your post too Monitaurus!

Truly mind-boggling to hear the Shadow Women and Equalities Minister saying that the definition of women depends on the context. EB was excellent to push that - 'what is the Labour definition of women?' Answer: burble burble, difficult decisions, trans people, burble burble (in other words i can't remember what she said, but it wasn't anything to do with women.)

Good letter read out too. Makes a real change to see the nonsense exposed.

I hope Labour are beginning to realise that this isn't going away. And thanks to journalists like Emma Barnett the pressure to come up with actual answers that slightly make a bit of sense is only going to increase. It's not a niche issue that they can hand wave away with vague platitudes about kindness anymore. The word is out.

Starmer, you have what must surely be the most winnable general election ever ahead of you. Cop yourself on mate.

I think the BBC has a lot of ground to make up here, because it has lost trust, especially when we learn that Jenni Murray was silenced through the last years of her Woman's Hour tenure and an article on lesbians pressured into sex with males was suppressed for over a year. Honest and unbiased, factual reporting and not suppressing or silencing journalists on particular topics is what the BBC should be about, especially when it presents itself as the reliable voice of truth on the global front.

Couldn't Dodds hear herself? How can something as basic and essential as sex ever be 'context dependent'? But I would add that Amber Rudd was full of praise for Caroline Nokes.

Link to the programme. Starts at 20 mins in.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001549f

Apparently wouldn't say twaw? (Not feeling strong enough to listen yet, maybe later. My tolerance of nonsense has already been sorely tested by the twit Penny).

If so, worst of all possible worlds for Labour, surely? Sit on the fence and piss everyone off...

If so, worst of all possible worlds for Labour, surely? Sit on the fence and piss everyone off...

Kind of what they did with Brexit too. It's not been a winning strategy for them.

@teawamutu

Apparently wouldn't say twaw? (Not feeling strong enough to listen yet, maybe later. My tolerance of nonsense has already been sorely tested by the twit Penny).

If so, worst of all possible worlds for Labour, surely? Sit on the fence and piss everyone off...

Yes, EB put the statement TWAW to her and she didn't agree with it.

AD also inadvertently said that the definition of women in the EA is someone who is adult and female and you could almost hear her the quiver of terror in her voice as she realised that's transphobic hate speech.

Labour really do need to sort out what storyline they're going with. That's always been the problem when you deviate from the truth - whatever you make up has to be consistent to be believable.

....however, what she did not say was TWAW, so that is progress

The meaning of woman is " context dependent " ?

Twas ever thus

'AD also inadvertently said that the definition of women in the EA is someone who is adult and female and you could almost hear her the quiver of terror in her voice as she realised that's transphobic hate speech.'

Yep. Absolutely pathetic. And the pleading about 'context' - 'surely Emma, SURELY?......' 🙄

Do they realise that they sound like absolute crackpots?

@nauticant

Apparently the answer to "what is a woman?" is "context-dependent".

Dodds came across as someone trying to mislead but bungling it.

I can hear Aretha singing it now: 'you make me feel like a natural context-dependent cervix-haver'.

Happy International Context-Dependent Day, everyone!

wouldn't say twaw?

That won't go down well.

There are unfortunately two contexts, the real world context and the I'm-scared-of-TRAs context.

At home with friends and family I carry on as normal. At work I don't know who works for the thought-police, and we all play the ideology game. If I didn't need my job for my mortgage, children and older family to care for (things that can be attacked) I would be honest all the time.

AD also inadvertently said that the definition of women in the EA is someone who is adult and female and you could almost hear her the quiver of terror in her voice as she realised that's transphobic hate speech

But then somewhat spoiled that by saying 'but then it doesn't say how you define either of those things'.

Yes, 'adult' is so very difficult to define. And female? Virtually impossible.

Huh, I met her canvassing for the last GE. She wanted to talk about schools (was o/s a school). I told her I'd vote for any candidate who could define a woman. Ended up talking about having a DD and how if she wanted to play rugby or go on a school residential, I wanted to be able to support her enthusiastically rather than worrying about whether a male-bodied peer might be on the pitch or in the dorm. She was human, down to earth and faintly surprised that it was being raised.

So she has bugger all excuse for not being prepared for it being raised on WH, on IWD, after 3 more years experience of why this bloody matters to us as women.

Oh gosh, she was awful. She used to be my MP, and I can confirm the letters I received from her were equally as pointless. Honestly if you can’t explain things in such a way that you can back up, and that everyone can understand, just don’t go there. I couldn’t imagine making such a colossal idiot of myself in private, let alone on national radio.

Look, politicians: Women aren't stupid. We're not going anywhere. We will remain women and we will continute to raise this issue until you face it and deal with it. And if you don't - well - don't respect my sex, don't expect my x, as the saying goes.

@DomesticatedZombie

Happy International Context-Dependent Day, everyone!

Thank you!

I'm wondering in what context AD and, I assume, the whole of the labour party don't think I'm a woman.

AD also inadvertently said that the definition of women in the EA is someone who is adult and female

I don't think that's right. Doesn't the EA actually use "woman" to mean "a female of any age"? So explicitly not limited to adults (though it is perhaps implicitly limited to humans).