Man gives birth

[Lookingforatimeslip]

Another “man” gives birth. Having seen a poster on Mumsnet talking about a book that used very ambiguous language around the sexes, it’s concerning that Ryan didn’t realise Ryan could get pregnant. What’s also very sad is when Ryan says “ Since coming out as Ryan, I've felt this freedom that I never felt as a girl, I do things for me instead of what society deems certain genders should do.”

Sorry about the Mirror link: www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-gives-birth-after-not-26406151

It makes me laugh that the couple have to be having sex as a heterosexual couple to conceive, so that isn't any different than a normal male female relationship. People must be so confused in the bedroom. Then as per every other birth the female delivers a baby.

Typical "man" ?

"She's read all of the books and understands the way in which I'd like him to be brought up"

Why? What is he going to be doing?

@Clymene

Despite being younger and I'd guess less educated than Freddy McConnell, I note that Ryan is well aware that a double mastectomy means no more breastfeeding, unlike Freddy.

I wonder what impact the testosterone during the first trimester will have had on the foetus?

I'm not convinced that was quite what Freddy meant. I think maybe the idea was that Freddy felt the doctors should not have made the assumption that Freddy would not want to have kids and breastfeed. That was the "heteronormative" assumption that Freddy criticized. Instead, they should have encouraged Freddy to consider that becoming a father and breastfeeding was a possibility.

I am not sure what to make of the idea that men don't have babies is heteronormative, but that ship seems to have sailed I guess.

Man gives birth to baby. That's nothing, I saw a racehorse shopping in Sainsbury's today. Well, a person who identifies as a racehorse, but it's the same thing, isn't it?

And I am probably the first talking cat who has taken A-levels. I want my headline in the news.

Seriously where to even begin. Basically the story is biological woman has unprotected sex with biological man and gets pregnant.

Thank god this person didn't get misgendered by the midwives.... Cus you know that's always the hardest part of pregnancy 🙄🙄🙄

It sometimes seems to me that people who identify as the other sex (ie trans) are some of the most sexist people there are. A lot of stories seem to involve them feeling restricted by their sex, or feeling that there are certain things they can't do because of their sex, so they decide to "change sex".
While GC people embrace that sex is not a barrier to the way you want to live your life.
Why couldn't this person do all the things they wanted to do WITHOUT "changing" sex? There seems to be some very strong beliefs in the trans community of what the sexes are supposed to be/doing/look like. I'm thinking of the trans men with the facial hair, the trans women with stereotypical "female" characteristics etc.
Why are we so stuck in perpetuating stereotypes? Maybe if they felt they could do anything as the sex they were born into (and remain) then we wouldn't have as many young people transitioning.
I don't think these people are 'rejecting' gender at all by becoming trans - I think they are, if anything, embracing it wholeheartedly and conforming to a lot of stereotypes and expectations.

Anyway, news is "woman gives birth which happens thousands of times a day across the world".
Big deal.

@RVN123, I feel the same. There seems a bit thing in the trans community where people fit into stereotypes. And I can’t understand why. Isn’t this what as a society we’re all trying to do is get rid of harmful stereotypes?

I feel for Ryan that Ryan believes that you’re restricted by your sex.

I just read a statement that rings with me.
A woman is born not worn.
This woman wears a man suit, but mother nature had the last laugh.

Interesting that it is the female man, not the male man, who has been left holding the baby.

@RVN123 so brilliantly written! That's exactly how I feel, but am very clumsy when trying to put it into words. I hate gender stereotypes, and thought we were heading away from them until recently.

My cousin was called a tomboy growing up. The things she liked were typically 'boys' things. I even hate writing that - I don't think there should be 'boys' things and 'girls' things. But at least she wasn't told she must've been born in the wrong body, which is what I fear is happening to kids today. It's like society were finally starting to accept that toys/clothes/hobbies/whatever could be liked by anyone of either sex, and now all of a sudden if a little boy wants to play with dolls he must be confused and born in the wrong body and must be put on puberty blockers immediately! 🙄

It's so dangerous and damaging and all of this changing language is just going confuse the future generations - as evidenced by the article in the OP. How can we teach young people about safe sex etc if they don't even know which sex can get pregnant?

I'm not convinced that was quite what Freddy meant. I think maybe the idea was that Freddy felt the doctors should not have made the assumption that Freddy would not want to have kids and breastfeed. That was the "heteronormative" assumption that Freddy criticized. Instead, they should have encouraged Freddy to consider that becoming a father and breastfeeding was a possibility.

But doesn't this go against the transactivist line that they should be in total control of what is done to their bodies with no gatekeeping?

Keira Bell was criticised by them because as a teenager she felt that she didn't receive enough counselling to help her to understand why she had decided she was transgender. They said that she made her decision and it was totally her own fault for doing things she now regrets.

How can they argue that a teenager knew exactly what she was doing and it wasn't the doctors' fault that she did things she now regrets, but a 28-year-old didn't have enough understanding to make a decision without help from doctors?

Lookingforatimeslip
There seems a bit thing in the trans community where people fit into stereotypes.

My hypothesis for why this happens is that it becomes self-perpetuating within a social group. So one trans person says that they know they must be a woman because their gender identity is female and they know this because they want to do feminine things. Everyone else in the social group accepts this because to do otherwise would be offensive. But accepting that gender identity is associated with stereotypes for that person requires re-evaluation of your own self perception. If you don't have gender typical preferences, does that mean you are non-binary? Maybe trans yourself?

Voicing these questions is likely to get the answer that yes, you are trans. There is also a certain status associated with being trans and queer rather than being "cishet," which I think might incentivise acceptance of a gender identity / stereotypes worldview, rather than deciding to ditch the belief system wholesale.

@OldCrone

I'm not convinced that was quite what Freddy meant. I think maybe the idea was that Freddy felt the doctors should not have made the assumption that Freddy would not want to have kids and breastfeed. That was the "heteronormative" assumption that Freddy criticized. Instead, they should have encouraged Freddy to consider that becoming a father and breastfeeding was a possibility.

But doesn't this go against the transactivist line that they should be in total control of what is done to their bodies with no gatekeeping?

Keira Bell was criticised by them because as a teenager she felt that she didn't receive enough counselling to help her to understand why she had decided she was transgender. They said that she made her decision and it was totally her own fault for doing things she now regrets.

How can they argue that a teenager knew exactly what she was doing and it wasn't the doctors' fault that she did things she now regrets, but a 28-year-old didn't have enough understanding to make a decision without help from doctors?

When there are endless contradictions and in fact the one coherent point seems to be that there is no way to get it right, it starts to suggest that the real need being met is not to solve a problem, but just in itself the role of the complainant.

It's all a bit cutted up pear.

@Misstache

Note how the male partner fucked off and refuses to parent and mum has to step in and support raising the grandchild; which is fine because she’s “read all the books.”

Mum should have said, sorry I’m gender fluid and feeling like a man today so I’m not going to do any of the support work expected of women. But, of course, Ryan can reject gender roles all they want but mum knows that without her taking on the traditional caretaking role baby wouldn’t be supported so she steps in.

Mum being a boring older woman is obviously entirely comfortable with gender norms…

Puberty blockers don't make you infertile in and of themselves. If you take them early enough they will prevent your natural development towards fertility. Then if you go on to take cross sex hormones without a break you will not be able to produce your natural ova or sperm (depending on your sex) as your body won't have developed to do so.

Taking all these hormones that your body is not built to cope with so young probably does affect fertility/development of the foetus which depends on hormone changes, but I doubt there are many studies.

I find it concerning that no one told Ryan they could still get pregnant.

I find it curious that Ryan has known they are a boy/man since the age of 9 but had PIV sex with a partner. I suppose they see themselves as a man with a vagina. I would have thought receiving a penis into one’s vagina might play havoc with the dysphoria (as would subsequently birthing a baby from said vagina) but what do I know?

Also, laughed out loud at the Axe Murderer Woah man quote

@HairyPotter

Interestingly Ryan’s first thoughts on finding Ryan was pregnant, wasn’t concern about the damage testosterone can do to a developing foetus, but ‘oh no! How will I cope without testosterone for the remainder of the pregnancy?

This is a really good point.

I really hope that child is actually a boy, and not biologically female with male genitals (which can be a consequence of the mother taking testosterone during pregnancy).

really hope that child is actually a boy, and not biologically female with male genitals (which can be a consequence of the mother taking testosterone during pregnancy)

Ryan would probably see no issue in that, sadly. Poor kid also appears to have been named after an alcoholic drink. FFS

@OldCrone

I'm not convinced that was quite what Freddy meant. I think maybe the idea was that Freddy felt the doctors should not have made the assumption that Freddy would not want to have kids and breastfeed. That was the "heteronormative" assumption that Freddy criticized. Instead, they should have encouraged Freddy to consider that becoming a father and breastfeeding was a possibility.

But doesn't this go against the transactivist line that they should be in total control of what is done to their bodies with no gatekeeping?

Keira Bell was criticised by them because as a teenager she felt that she didn't receive enough counselling to help her to understand why she had decided she was transgender. They said that she made her decision and it was totally her own fault for doing things she now regrets.

How can they argue that a teenager knew exactly what she was doing and it wasn't the doctors' fault that she did things she now regrets, but a 28-year-old didn't have enough understanding to make a decision without help from doctors?

Yup, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

But I think the main thing with Freddy is avoiding taking responsibility. Even for the normal things we all experience like looking back and saying - oh, maybe I would have been better off to do that differently, I'll remember that next time.

Instead someone else is to blame.

When you get a GRC don't you make a declaration that you are 'living in the acquired gender' (whatever that means in reality) but if you say you are a man and have a baby surely you have broken your legal declaration?

Lookingforatimeslip
"There seems a bit thing in the trans community where people fit into stereotypes."
Another factor may be that gender stereotypes and categories are rigid and some people (who think in rigid ways) may be more drawn to them, and less able to be comfortable whey ambiguity. Then if those people didn't feel that they fit their category they feel really unsettled by that and may seek a trans identity to resolve that discomfort. Which would tie in with the higher incidence of autism in trans identified people.

It's that quote in action 'transwomen make the news for winning sports, becoming politicians, etc. Transmen make the news for ... giving birth'

Also, I feel like Ryan's partner knew fine well he wasn't infertile but just wanted to have PiV without a condom.

@FemaleAndLearning

When you get a GRC don't you make a declaration that you are 'living in the acquired gender' (whatever that means in reality) but if you say you are a man and have a baby surely you have broken your legal declaration?

There's no definition of 'living as a man' or 'living as a woman'. The Scottish government have said that one of the safeguards against people making frivolous or dishonest declarations that they are going to live as the opposite sex is that they can be prosecuted for a false declaration. But when there is no definition of 'living as' the opposite sex, and people like Ryan and Freddy McConnell have given birth whilst claiming to 'live as men', no such prosecution is possible.