Men can do anything women can

[OhHolyJesus]

Can they? Looks like you needed not one but two women to be a father. Women can be mothers with just the sperm.

Not the same. So very far from it being the same. Men can be fathers but no they cannot be mothers.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10579037/Men-women-shouldnt-IVF-baby-own.html

I never understand why it is legal to sell your womb and vagina for surrogacy (sorry 'get your expenses covered') but not legal to sell your vagina for sex. You can argue about egg donation all you want because you think that's easier to defend. However, unless you can explain how a man having a wank is equivalent to growing a child and giving birth both by level of risk to the adult and impact on emotional wellbeing of both the adult volunteer and the created child then comparing the use of a sperm bank with the use of a surrogate is ridiculous. Surrogacy is exploitative in all its forms and should be illegal.

I’m also a bit at a law lecturer boasting doing something that is illegal in the UK ie. buying a baby via surrogacy. And in the process doing something else that is also illegal in the UK, ie. Selecting an embryo by sex for non medical reasons

I really hope Simon Burrell doesn’t lecture on legal ethics at UCL

whatever the ethics of surrogacy and egg donation might be, how is this late middle aged man, who presumably will be working his normal job, going to raise this child on his own? Probable answer; by paying nannies, childminders, the maid etc to do it for him.
They would be the child’s mother, and it’s sad to think that this man will be able to dismiss those women on a whim.
It all seems very entitled and arrogant.
As a father myself, I understand my role to be very different from that of my children’s mother, and tbh in that role I am fairly replaceable. Their mother is not.
Lastly, £200k! How many children’s lives could be saved and/or turned around with that!

EmpressCixi
The women should make money for doing this.
They should be paid 24hrs/7 days a week, overtime, extra for nights, bank holidays, time in lieu for annual leave. They should be paid at a rate for a specialist.
Why are women expected to do this as a gift?

@yellowtwo

EmpressCixi The women should make money for doing this. They should be paid 24hrs/7 days a week, overtime, extra for nights, bank holidays, time in lieu for annual leave. They should be paid at a rate for a specialist. Why are women expected to do this as a gift?

They should also have life and disability insurance as part of that pay for those times when they suffer injury or die as a result of the pregnancy. The risks of a dangerous pregnancy are higher in surrogacy pregnancies.

Fertility equality - exploitation of desperate women and baby trafficking.

Vile.

No informed consent can predict how you will feel about a baby you carry and birth.

The passion that some women feel for their babies, astonishes them. They had no idea they were going to feel like that. You cannot get informed consent for those primal emotions.

And you're not allowed to take puppies and kittens away from their mothers as early as you're allowed to take human babies. Why not?

I've got a friend who is pregnant at the moment and although she is very excited about becoming a mother she is having the most horrendous pregnancy, a healthy young woman in her 20s with no underlying conditions. This has floored her, she's had to start her maternity leave early and is almost housebound.

Nobody can guarantee what kind of pregnancy they will have. I just think it's too much to expect a person to go through something like that for someone else, and that's before we even start thinking about labour and birth.

Consent in this case requires informed consent.

Notably lacking in case of egg donation is research into the long-term health effects. We've had over 30 years of egg harvesting and there's a dearth of studies looking into long-term consequences for the donors. And that's worldwide.

When given advice before donating and then consenting, most women are not adequately informed about increased cancer risk, loss of fertility, risk of strokes, kidney disease, heart attacks or death. They are not informed about the risk of artificially inducing menopause decades before it happens naturally (that's what the first step in the process is that waitwhat23 has detailed above.) It often involves a drug like Lupron, the type of drugs used to block puberty. (Whose dangerous side effects for women and children we've discussed at length on other threads.)

There is also no research into the long-term health outcomes for women whose natural cycle is stopped and restarted in this way several times. Which happens a lot with egg donors.

And that's just step one.

Equating this dangerous procedure with sperm donation even in terms of consent betrays a clear lack of knowledge about how these women are "informed". There's a lot of statements from the typically young and poor women who are solicited for their eggs to support this criticism.

They are not fully informed, because if they were, few women would risk it in my view. And that's leaving aside the question of informed consent being possible at all when the long-term consequences are severely underresearched.

"Daddy's special helpers."

But, I can honestly say, William was worth every penny

I can honestly say I hope William never grows up to read those words.

Does anyone else find the use of the word "gals" the most inflammatory aspect of that enlightening interjection by @AnnihilatePutin?

I was just surprised by the lack of the word 'amirite?!' which seems to be standard in the kind of trite statements made by those who are woefully uninformed or are deliberate community disruptors.

'Deal with it' is almost amusing in what it reveals about that poster.

@FannyCann

But, I can honestly say, William was worth every penny

I can honestly say I hope William never grows up to read those words.

There is an honesty about declaring that William was bought though I wonder would he have still felt he got his money’s worth if William was born disabled?