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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Rhannion · 06/03/2022 16:04

Clearly the whole point of safeguarding goes way over your head CatherinaJTV which is no surprise.

Hadalifeonce · 06/03/2022 16:10

So when I was a child and my parents told me to refuse any man offering me sweets, it wasn't because they were just nice men giving out sweeties to small children? Who have thought it?

CatherinaJTV · 06/03/2022 16:15

@Rhannion

Clearly the whole point of safeguarding goes way over your head CatherinaJTV which is no surprise.
the change in the GRA has bugger all to do with "safeguarding" though.
CatherinaJTV · 06/03/2022 16:16

@Hadalifeonce

So when I was a child and my parents told me to refuse any man offering me sweets, it wasn't because they were just nice men giving out sweeties to small children? Who have thought it?
this has nothing to do with the change in the GRA either, nor does it fall under "predators having to pretend they are women"
Hadalifeonce · 06/03/2022 16:21

I don't think anyone is saying predators pretend to be women specifically, just that predators will pretend to be anything if it gets them closer to their prey.

LigandBrigand · 06/03/2022 16:25

I obviously need to post this again

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/gender-reassignment-5-years-of-referrals-in-oxfordshire/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E

Gender reassignment: 5 years of referrals in Oxfordshire

There were 39 males in this study.

The majority of individuals (80%, n = 45) were referred to a specialist centre for gender reassignment (Fig. 2), although only two (4%) have had funding for surgery approved at the time of the study. Three of the sample had or were planning to have surgery abroad, on the basis that services there were more easily accessible and less expensive than in the UK. Reasons for non-referral to a specialist centre included being deemed not ready for transitioning (either determined by the individual or because the person was not currently living in the desired gender role), being homosexual but not having gender identity disorder, having an autism-spectrum disorder with a significant degree of impairment such that the real-life experience criterion was not met, and seeking gender reassignment to facilitate or normalise paedophilia. This latter small group described gender reassignment as a means by which to increase their intimate contact with children, which they viewed to be more socially acceptable in a female role.

To emphasise a number of males were refused gender reassignment therapy because they were ”seeking gender reassignment to facilitate or normalise paedophilia.”

”This latter small group described gender reassignment as a means by which to increase their intimate contact with children, which they viewed to be more socially acceptable in a female role.”

We have been unable to identify any previous literature describing individuals seeking gender reassignment as a means of normalising their paedophilia, but this is clearly a concerning finding.

So there you go. Evidence that this DOES happen.

Where the hell are these males now?

Kendodd · 06/03/2022 16:35

And in the context of self-ID do you really think none of these men will pretend to be transwomen in order to gain easier access to victims?

What does that even mean 'pretend to be transwoman '?
Surely whoever says they are a transwoman is a transwoman regardless of what motivates them?
If we decide people are pretending to be trans, well, how do you decide who's real and who isn't?

CatherinaJTV · 06/03/2022 16:37

@Hadalifeonce

I don't think anyone is saying predators pretend to be women specifically, just that predators will pretend to be anything if it gets them closer to their prey.
that's a) not something trans women should be blamed for or carry the weight of and b) it is still not essential for predators to pretend they are women to get access to their victims. Hence there was nothing wrong with Shona R's statement.
CatherinaJTV · 06/03/2022 16:38

@Kendodd

And in the context of self-ID do you really think none of these men will pretend to be transwomen in order to gain easier access to victims?

What does that even mean 'pretend to be transwoman '?
Surely whoever says they are a transwoman is a transwoman regardless of what motivates them?
If we decide people are pretending to be trans, well, how do you decide who's real and who isn't?

Have you read the draft of the GRA reform bill?
Nellodee · 06/03/2022 16:45

I haven’t read it Catherine. Works you mind summarising the parts which differentiate between trans women and men pretending to be trans women, please?

Nellodee · 06/03/2022 16:45

Sorry, had a bit of an auto correct fail there.

Deliriumoftheendless · 06/03/2022 16:48

Ted Bundy used to pretend to have a broken arm and get women to help him carry stuff to his car. He’d then attack them, abduct them and rape and murder them.

So yes, predators are highly manipulative and will do whatever it takes to get nearer to their victims.

I suspect there’s a level of enjoyment in the deception that people like Bundy enjoy.

Kendodd · 06/03/2022 16:51

Have you read the draft of the GRA reform bill?
No
There is a very big difference, imo at least, between a man saying he is a transwoman and a man saying he's a woman though and demanding to be treated like a woman.

CatherinaJTV · 06/03/2022 16:52

@Deliriumoftheendless

Ted Bundy used to pretend to have a broken arm and get women to help him carry stuff to his car. He’d then attack them, abduct them and rape and murder them.

So yes, predators are highly manipulative and will do whatever it takes to get nearer to their victims.

I suspect there’s a level of enjoyment in the deception that people like Bundy enjoy.

Changing the GRA has nothing to do with Ted Bundy. What a grotesque line of argument.
Kendodd · 06/03/2022 16:53

This thread seems to be implying transwomen who attack women and children are not real transwomen.

Deliriumoftheendless · 06/03/2022 16:54

Can you highlight the. It in my post where I talk about changing the GRA, Cath as I don’t remember writing about it.

Of course if you’re confusing me with another poster I graciously accept your apology.

CatherinaJTV · 06/03/2022 16:58

@Kendodd

This thread seems to be implying transwomen who attack women and children are not real transwomen.
This thread seems to be alleging that the majority of trans women are predators.
CatherinaJTV · 06/03/2022 16:59

@Deliriumoftheendless

Can you highlight the. It in my post where I talk about changing the GRA, Cath as I don’t remember writing about it.

Of course if you’re confusing me with another poster I graciously accept your apology.

Apologies, I can't tell you apart.
Deliriumoftheendless · 06/03/2022 17:02

Same Cath.

OldCrone · 06/03/2022 17:24

@Kendodd

And in the context of self-ID do you really think none of these men will pretend to be transwomen in order to gain easier access to victims?

What does that even mean 'pretend to be transwoman '?
Surely whoever says they are a transwoman is a transwoman regardless of what motivates them?
If we decide people are pretending to be trans, well, how do you decide who's real and who isn't?

That's a good point. Under self-ID, with no definition of who is a trans person, and no definition of how anyone can 'live as' the opposite sex, there is no such thing as pretending to be a trans person. Everyone is who they say they are.

What I was really getting at is that there are some men who genuinely believe they are transwomen and some men who will claim to be transwomen because it gives them better access to women and children.

The current system, which requires a medical assessment, at least makes an effort to distinguish between genuine believers and predators. Of course this doesn't rule out some 'genuine' cases from also being predators.

The best solution is repeal of the GRA so that no males can be legally female.

DomesticatedZombie · 06/03/2022 17:24

Oh, Catherina! You can tell us how we tell apart predatory males pretending to be women from genuine transwomen, please?

CatherinaJTV · 06/03/2022 17:25

@Deliriumoftheendless

Same Cath.
so the stabs at personal insults are generic Grin
DomesticatedZombie · 06/03/2022 17:26

This test is going to be ever more crucial when (as expected) the SNP force this shitshow of a legislation through Scotparl.

Women really need to know how we tell, when we find a male in our single sex space, whether they are a genuine transwomen or whether they are a predatory male. It will be quite important going forward.

So, please do share. Thanks.

CatherinaJTV · 06/03/2022 17:27

@DomesticatedZombie

Oh, Catherina! You can tell us how we tell apart predatory males pretending to be women from genuine transwomen, please?
How are you doing it now? The GRA reform doesn't change anything about that situation you are so obsessed about.
Deliriumoftheendless · 06/03/2022 17:30

@DomesticatedZombie

Oh, Catherina! You can tell us how we tell apart predatory males pretending to be women from genuine transwomen, please?
Cath admits they can’t tell MN posters apart so I reckon that’s far too difficult for them!
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