I'm confused, The met and searches

[IdentifyingAsAPrincess]

www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/met-police-review-uniform-policy-23260398 Please divert me if there's already a thread on this, but how is this supposed to work alongside the belief that sex is real being a legally held one? Can a female detainee alert the officer that she is gender critical and as such that makes a male person searching her a common or garden sexual offender?

Eh? Isn’t this just about officers’ being able to choose their uniform. If I need the police, I couldn't care less if it’s a male or female (or non-binary) officer they send or what uniform they’re wearing. I also didn’t think I’d have any right to do so!

No the article went on to say that it was considered that transwomen should be allowed to search female prisoners

Uniform is one thing
That's another

From the article -

In his interview with MyLondon, CI Halton-Woodward revealed that the Met Police are also reviewing how body searches in custody can “better reflect the officer’s gender identity” - which could involve making it the default that trans women are able to search female arrestees.

@Janesmom

Eh? Isn’t this just about officers’ being able to choose their uniform. If I need the police, I couldn't care less if it’s a male or female (or non-binary) officer they send or what uniform they’re wearing. I also didn’t think I’d have any right to do so!

Well you are very cool, but the vast majority of women in female jails have been the victims of sexual offences and childhood sexual abuse, the rates are far higher in female offenders than in the general population. It's widely accepted that female inmates are among the most vulnerable women in society, with the highest rates trauma induced mental health problems. At some point those women were arrested. It's very nice that you wouldn't mind though.

@Janesmom

Eh? Isn’t this just about officers’ being able to choose their uniform. If I need the police, I couldn't care less if it’s a male or female (or non-binary) officer they send or what uniform they’re wearing. I also didn’t think I’d have any right to do so!

90% of the time you're right.

Intimate searches or support after sexual assault, I want a female officer.

There was a case recently where the police decided to ‘punish’ a woman who refused to give them her details (she was waiting for a friend in their car). A 50 something Rastafarian woman searched and put in a cell, with her clothes taken away and given hot pants and what looked like a kids crop top.

Now do you see why women are worried? Besides the police should be seen to be doing their job - not playing rainbow gender games.

I would absolutely care if I had to have a male officer touch me intimately or see me with my clothes removed. If probably be distraught and feel like I'd been violated.

Whether he wore a male or female uniform wouldn't lessen that distress.

In fact, a female uniform would, if anything, make that violation feel even greater.

Of course it would.

In fact, a female uniform would, if anything, make that violation feel even greater.

I know what you mean, but I can't articulate why.

Smacks of someone getting their kicks.

Add to that the worrying increase (or is it just increased reporting...?) of rapes/indecent assaults by police officers and I don't a male - however he identifies - anywhere near me in those traumatised circumstances.

Totally Kitten, but a bit more than that, like I played along or something. Idk, maybe just that. I'd just feel a bit complicit in their game IYKWIM, a bit gross.

Can a female detainee alert the officer that she is gender critical and as such that makes a male person searching her a common or garden sexual offender?

It's nothing to do with belief. Law forbids an officer of the opposite sex from searching a detainee. Males cannot search females and females cannot search males.

@CompleteGinasaur

Add to that the worrying increase (or is it just increased reporting...?) of rapes/indecent assaults by police officers and I don't a male - however he identifies - anywhere near me in those traumatised circumstances.

Yeah, I do think I trust male police officers less than random males.

@delurkasaurus

Can a female detainee alert the officer that she is gender critical and as such that makes a male person searching her a common or garden sexual offender?

It's nothing to do with belief. Law forbids an officer of the opposite sex from searching a detainee. Males cannot search females and females cannot search males.

But if that changes as proposed and they work it on the basis of gender, then they are working on the basis of a belief. Unless I read the article wrong.

It's a really weird article. The paragraph about searches in custody is incongruous with the rest of the information given. It talks about uniforms being more 'inclusive' and training being given to tackle homophobia etc and then almost nonchalantly talks about searches in custody being conducted by males and no further information or discussion. It's almost as though the feelings and rights of the women being searched don't matter. But we know that.

Did anyone else find this rather troubling?

'But he noted that police misconduct regulations aren’t in the force’s gift: “We do not have control over them.” Officers can only be sacked for gross misconduct, a fact which allowed nine of 14 officers investigated by the IOPC to keep their jobs'

@delurkasaurus

Can a female detainee alert the officer that she is gender critical and as such that makes a male person searching her a common or garden sexual offender?

It's nothing to do with belief. Law forbids an officer of the opposite sex from searching a detainee. Males cannot search females and females cannot search males.

But sex and gender are being used interchangeably so yeah, not beyond the realms of possibility to get a man who declares transwoman or non binary status searching a woman.

Like putting something wildly unacceptable through on the back of something else. Costumes, inclusivity, tackle homophobia... oh yeah and cosplaying males intimately searching females. Nothing to see here.
Maybe it's just that article.

And just in terms of the uniform, why are there different uniforms? The difference appears to be that women wear a bowler hat and cravat and the men wear a peaked hat and tie. Why?

Then again, the concerns about PPE (such as stab vests) which are ill fitting for female Police Officers because they are made to fit a male default doesn't seem to have been addressed by the Police. At all. I wonder why women's safety is a less pressing concern than officers being able to wear the uniform which matches their gender identity?

@delurkasaurus

Can a female detainee alert the officer that she is gender critical and as such that makes a male person searching her a common or garden sexual offender?

It's nothing to do with belief. Law forbids an officer of the opposite sex from searching a detainee. Males cannot search females and females cannot search males.

A TW officer absolutely could do a search on a female detainee. And a female officer can be expected to search a TW.

These things are already happening in some forces so I'm quite shocked the Met aren't already doing this.

Do you fancy Wayne Couzens type officer (since we know there's plenty of them still in the MET) strip-searching you because he decides he feels like a woman at that moment?

Your rights as a female are worth less than the rights of a male person to feel affirmed, is that what you are saying?

@Waitwhat23

And just in terms of the uniform, why are there different uniforms? The difference appears to be that women wear a bowler hat and cravat and the men wear a peaked hat and tie. Why?

Then again, the concerns about PPE (such as stab vests) which are ill fitting for female Police Officers because they are made to fit a male default doesn't seem to have been addressed by the Police. At all. I wonder why women's safety is a less pressing concern than officers being able to wear the uniform which matches their gender identity?

Most kit nowadays is pretty neutral. A majority of forces use black wicking shirts which I think are unisex. Trousers are split by sex to allow for hip room, and hats are different. Stab vests are designed differently for M/F. I think all the rest of PPE, belts, jackets etc are unisex

The timing of this article is appalling regarding letting male officer curry out intimate searches of women. A particularly horrible incident happened almost exactly 12 months ago.

I think, for me, it would be worse to be searched by a TIM officer because I know too much. With some it would be a fetish, they are still sexually attracted to women and nothing, bar the clothing, makes them not men. Just an unverifiable female feeling, while they are feeling an actual female.

I remember a thread from a few week ago, a police force getting some stick because a trans officer was photographed with garish make up and nail varnish. The force was criticised because the slap was non-uniform, etc. I remember thinking, if it wasn't for the makeup I would have thought it was just some bloke., big beefy arms and all. All the GRCs in the world wouldn't change that.

I don't know the procedure for an intimate search? Do you have to strip in front of them? I assume all cavities are searched? If you scream, resist, misgender(!!!), would that mean further charges, a hate crime!?

In all probability it is something I'm extremely unlikely to expérience, but the thought of some woman, some girl....

But it'll probably never happened, the Met has no reputation for misogyny, none at all....does it?

There was an officer who had two ID cards - one male and one female identities (which they selected according to how they felt). How is this not taking the Mickey?

Horrifying