Children’s minister not ‘overly happy’ for transgender girls to board with his daughters

[zanahoria]

The children’s minister has said he would not be “overly happy” with his daughters sharing a boarding house with transgender girls.

Will Quince, minister for children and families, described the issue of trans pupils in single sex spaces as “a bit of a minefield”.

He said the "number one priority" of schools should be the safeguarding of pupils.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/01/childrens-minister-not-overly-happy-transgender-girls-board/

It would help if we stopped using obfuscating language. He doesn't want his girl children sharing with boy children. Calling them 'trans girls' hides the problem being tackled.

Even if we defer to the 'legal sex' argument it doesn't apply to these children who are under 18 and could not possibly have a GRC.

They are boys wanting to share with girls (or vice versa). That is what should be discussed plainly.

It's only a minefield if you're too chicken shit to agree that they're either in or out.

We really need more men to show some backbone and speak up about this. It's been obvious for a long time now that men don't receive anything like the sort of abuse that women do for speaking out. It's only women who receive the death and rape threats, while men usually just get a sad face and "I'm so disappointed in you".*

It's about time they realised that even though it doesn't affect them personally, it affects their daughters, their wives, their mothers and their sisters. When those women and girls speak out they get rape and death threats. They can support us and only risk getting a gentle admonishment for being a disappointment. Why are they so quiet?

*I am aware that some very outspoken men have also been harassed by the batshit gender woo woo crowd, but most of them don't seem to get this treatment. It seems to divide very much along the lines of what sex someone is, which is bizarre for a movement which declares that sex doesn't exist or isn't important.

But are trans boys being excluded from the girls school ?

@mudgetastic

But are trans boys being excluded from the girls school ?

I don't think so.

It's males who are being excluded. All girls are still allowed to attend, regardless of 'gender identity'. They are trans inclusive, but recognise the reality of sex.

What he means by a minefield is that he wouldn’t put up with it for his own daughter, but he’s less bothered about other girls as they aren’t his daughter, rather like they’ll pay for private education and health care for themselves and their own kids as that which is available in the state sector is not good enough, but they aren’t really bothered about anyone else.

The Tory weigh has always been to buy their way out of what they don’t like and The expectation that anyone else who doesn’t like it should do the same, and if they can’t afford it it’s their own fault for not working hard enough. Capitalism will sort itself out according to what it can get away with, and if people don’t have the money to support the choices they’d like to make then tough shit.

I've noticed that predators now feel empowered to argue the predatory view that women and girls refusing to be naked in front of males and insisting on single sex safe spaces is akin to racism. I've seen it argued on here by at least 2 of our drive by male posters as part of their women scolding rants.
I presume it won't be long before Stonewall pick up the same line (unless they're already there which wouldn't surprise me?)

@Goatsaregreat Stonewall are already there. Gender critical women likened to Nazis and lesbians who won’t have sex with transwomen are demonstrating prejudice akin to racism. They’ve already said this shit out loud, many times.

I think 'minefield' is a fair analogy. You're walking through what seems like a field of normality and an assumption that you thought was common sense, such as 'male and female children don't share bedrooms on a school trip/at school', and you discover that making such a statement blows up in your face.

Presumably from the other perspective, you're walking through what seems like a field of positive affirmation of your gender identity, and suddenly the fact that people don't believe that you've actually changed sex, and the limitations of what people feel able to go along with, blow up in your face. I'm sure that's a shock. But separate sleeping accommodation for males and females, particularly children, is a measure for keeping everyone safe, including those that identify as trans.

And in fairness @Itwasntmeright the school in this scenario is a private boarding school. So the parents' spending on private education hasn't bought them out of this challenge - rather the opposite.

@foodfiend

And in fairness *@Itwasntmeright* the school in this scenario is a private boarding school. So the parents' spending on private education hasn't bought them out of this challenge - rather the opposite.

This probably explains this comment: 'He added that the school referenced was a private school, which made this “slightly more complex”.'

Why is it more complex if it's a private school? It's possible that he doesn't think it's more complex, but he does think it's more important, because he thought he'd bought his way out of this as far as his daughters were concerned by sending them to a private school.

It's not a minefield, or different because it's private school, and it's not complex.

Females should not be sleeping in the same rooms as males in this scenario. Put simply, child protection matters and sex matters.

I should imagine the extra layer to it being private is that parents get more of a say, because they're paying.

And there must be way more parents who don't want it, than the odd one or two who do.

Money will start to talk very quickly in that sort of scenario.

I find the use of 'identifying as transgender' interesting.

It's in the Guardian too: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/01/schools-minister-wouldnt-be-overly-happy-if-his-daughters-boarded-with-trans-pupil

With the usual "ZOMG why are you trying to ban all trans kids from having an education?" comments from Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence.

And "We look back in history and can recall gender being a reason access was denied to girls and now we have that institution denying access to another marginalised group of learners. When will we learn?”

No Mermaids, gender was never a reason for denying access to education for girls, it has always been sex.

Access?

As in access to girls' bodies when they're asleep?

Read the room, Mermaids.

It's a relentless assault on the right to have boundaries - the right for girls to say no thank you. I don't consent to sharing showers, toilets, dormitories, women only spaces with males - no matter how they identify. The change is that now gires and mermaids have the confidence to say the quiet bits out loud - that safeguarding can be overturned in favour of males who want access to girls and women when vulnerable.

It is a minefield, because successive governments have allowed Stonewall and its allies to dictate the agenda and intimidate anyone who tries to defend children.

@Itwasntmeright oh that's just lazy.

Most MPs kids are at state schools, and as his wife is a teacher, I'd be surprised if Will Quinces kids are at private schools.

And the question was about a private school anyway.

He didn't have to say it. He could've fluffed his way through. But he didn't. And the more male MPs who think how it would affect their daughters/sisters/wives/mums the better.

And becuase it's in all the news, his colleagues will see it. And maybe more of them will start to think about what allowing 'trans kids' into opposite sex space actually means. It means that 18 year old males can share a boarding house (or school trip tent/room/youth hut etc) with teenage girls.

Light. Light is good.

If gender is a social construct and transgender are people that identify as the opposite stereotypical gender to the one in which they were raised, why are so many insisting that they be regarded as a different biological sex? If bio sex has nothing to do with gender, then surely the most they, as Transgender folk, should want to be identified as is feminine or masculine. What's wrong with saying "I'm a trans woman/ trans man" and accepting that there is a need for third spaces, not a right for them to occupy the spaces of the opposite bio sex to them- because SEX has nothing to do with GENDER as they keep screaming..... so their gender doesn't currently dictate which bathroom they use or which dormitory they sleep in. Their sex does. And if they don't fit in their bio sex, then a third space should provide them with what they want.

Except it seems that what they want is mostly based on trans women wanting to be in female spaces. I hear precious little about trans men competing in male sports, for example. Or trying to take down whole companies about perceived discrimination at work. It's mostly bio men trying to tell bio women that they're in charge and we are inferior. That should not be enabled at any age.

The government's national minimum standards for boarding schools has a clear statement on sleeping accommodation.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/boarding-schools-national-minimum-standards

I'm guessing that in 2015 no-one felt it was necessary to spell out exactly what was meant by 'girl' and 'boy'. But I think we can assume that the intention was to refer to the child's sex, not their gender identity.

Standard 5 – Boarding accommodation
5.1 Suitable sleeping accommodation is provided for boarders. It is well organised and managed with risk assessments undertaken and findings acted upon to reduce risk for all boarders. Where boarders are aged 8 years or over, sleeping accommodation for boys is separate from sleeping accommodation for girls.

Gender and sex magically recombine ar points where anyone suggests that sex actually has a physical meaning and involves the whole body, nd that what happens to the body affects the person rather than allegedly interchangeable Lego 'body parts' that can be swapped in and out with barely a hiccup.

Clarifying a question further up, quite a lot of girls’ schools have pupils identifying as trans boys at them. The big issue will be the first time a boys’ school accepts a trans boy, or girls’ school a trans boy. So far polices I have seen rely on the inability of under 18s to legally change status by referencing official status

The problem is something we need to face, not shy away from and there is no easy answer. The usual concerns around toilets, sports and prisons are made by those who find it difficult to accept that there are more than two sexes. The problem is exacerbated by those who overpreach enforced acceptance of the multitude of other "options", who do nothing but entrench their opposition into a corner.

There are a small number of people who fall in between two stools and that does not make them perverts or freaks. What we really need are wise ideas for how to allow them to exist in society without forcing them to be something they are not. Being in the majority doesn't mean you have the right to persecute the minority.

I don't have the solution but get annoyed by those who feel the right answer is not to look for one.

@capstix

The problem is something we need to face, not shy away from and there is no easy answer. The usual concerns around toilets, sports and prisons are made by those who find it difficult to accept that there are more than two sexes. The problem is exacerbated by those who overpreach enforced acceptance of the multitude of other "options", who do nothing but entrench their opposition into a corner.

There are a small number of people who fall in between two stools and that does not make them perverts or freaks. What we really need are wise ideas for how to allow them to exist in society without forcing them to be something they are not. Being in the majority doesn't mean you have the right to persecute the minority.

I don't have the solution but get annoyed by those who feel the right answer is not to look for one.

Generally schools are segregated by sex. There is no particular reason to segregate them by gender though I suppose someone could choose to set up such a school if they wished.

@capstix

"The usual concerns around toilets, sports and prisons are made by those who find it difficult to accept that there are more than two sexes."

What are these other sexes? Are they unique to humans or are there other mammals that have these sexes too? What role do these additional sexes play in human reproduction? What gametes do they produce if not sperm or ova?