A report from a mother of a swimmer - USA

[pombear]

I don't think there's a thread on this yet. This is such a powerful testament on behalf of her daughter's experience swimming against Thomas.

The coercion and pressure on the young women in the teams is shocking, as is the ACLU response when the mother contacted them.

"I was told that the words biological and genetic had no business being in a discussion around sex and gender. I was told transwomen are women, they're female, they're girls. No language that minimises that point should be tolerated. I was told it was an offensive question, my language was out of date. I was told that sex and gender are equally important and that the ACLU is actively removing sex from legal documentations and legal language"

She (ACLU rep) concluded with. "Let me tell you with certainty, the ACLU will never represent ciswomen against women"

When I shared this with my mother in law the next day she said "Well, there you go, we're literally flying the plane upside down now, aren't we"

@TheAbbotOfUnreason

In one respect I can see why the UPenn coach(es) have gone along with this. When your livelihood depends on results and a 6’4” swimmer with all the advantages of male puberty is going to smash the competition and they can play the be kind / transphobe card they’re literally onto a winner.

From experience, swim coaches who find being able to pay their bills depends on the results they bring to the club can be ruthless, abusive and uncaring to the swimmers who put their trust in them.

That being the case, every other coach, at every other uni is going to do the same, in order to remain competitive. They'll be flooding the fucking place with blokes.

Perhaps a fast flood is better than a trickle. Enough that it doesn't just become embarrassing it becomes outrageous. The general public see Bob and Dave competing as Sue and Liz, great hulking men leading the races for 1st and 2nd. Women way behind.

@Enough4me

Perhaps a fast flood is better than a trickle. Enough that it doesn't just become embarrassing it becomes outrageous. The general public see Bob and Dave competing as Sue and Liz, great hulking men leading the races for 1st and 2nd. Women way behind.

It already happened in Connecticut. First and second.

www.espn.com/espnw/article/29347507/the-battle-title-ix-gets-woman-sports-raging-national-debate

This is where the girls lost a lawsuit to have them excluded.

www.outsports.com/2021/4/25/22402933/trans-athlete-lawsuit-andraya-yearwood-terry-miller-connecticut-adf-federal-judge

Research shows all students benefit when trans students are included in sports. What this case should show is that these bans are wrong, and trans people belong, in sports and everywhere in our society.”

I’m furious all over again on your behalf, misstache. Thank you for your powerful testimony. Women and girls matter.

I'm getting very tired of the misleading language, such as saying that trans girls are being "banned from sport" or "are not being included." That is not an accurate reflection of what is being asked. All that is being asked is that they simply should play in the division that reflects the reality of their biological sex. They are not banned at all.

Just read another article saying, "It's not about fairness." Of course not. When it becomes obvious how unfair this is to girls and women, we are then told that it is not about fairness. What is really meant is that, they know it's unfair to women and girls, but women and girls are not important enough to be treated fairly.

I think, at root, it's that women are not seen as fully human. We are merely service units to the REAL humans, i.e. male-bodied people.

The more things change, the more the awful treatment of women (the kind with a female body) remains the same.

@misstache thank you for two really powerful posts.

@Datun

Fucking hell Misstache that was a difficult read. I found my teeth clenching harder and harder the further I got.

It does, however, account for the disgusting sexism that is being displayed, as it appears it's nothing new.

It sounds as though you were 'allowed' to do sport, as though it was a bloody favour, and you had to pay through the nose to do it.

I'm reminded of that disgusting rapist, whose name escapes me, who was caught red-handed raping an unconscious girl, and the judge went very lightly on him, lest his 'sports career be ruined'. The contrast is gutting.

You should broadcast your experiences from the bloody treetops, if you can. I'm sure most people have no real idea how unequal it is across-the-board, even before even the advent of freshly minted cheats and woman haters.

Is it this swimmer?

@TheAbbotOfUnreason

In one respect I can see why the UPenn coach(es) have gone along with this. When your livelihood depends on results and a 6’4” swimmer with all the advantages of male puberty is going to smash the competition and they can play the be kind / transphobe card they’re literally onto a winner.

From experience, swim coaches who find being able to pay their bills depends on the results they bring to the club can be ruthless, abusive and uncaring to the swimmers who put their trust in them.

Honestly I think what you are saying, and the way student athletes are treated, all come down to a bigger problem with the way sports are part of the college system in the US. Huge amounts of money are involved for colleges, there can be huge salaries for coaches, and for students sports can be their ticket to a college education.

And the same is largely true at the high school level.

It's not great for education.

@aloris

I'm getting very tired of the misleading language, such as saying that trans girls are being "banned from sport" or "are not being included." That is not an accurate reflection of what is being asked. All that is being asked is that they simply should play in the division that reflects the reality of their biological sex. They are not banned at all.

Just read another article saying, "It's not about fairness." Of course not. When it becomes obvious how unfair this is to girls and women, we are then told that it is not about fairness. What is really meant is that, they know it's unfair to women and girls, but women and girls are not important enough to be treated fairly.

I think, at root, it's that women are not seen as fully human. We are merely service units to the REAL humans, i.e. male-bodied people.

The more things change, the more the awful treatment of women (the kind with a female body) remains the same.

The logic is that if there is an oppressed group, it's always fair to give them an advantage over people in a non-oppressed group. So, say university admissions. It's not about fairness to real individuals, it's about justice (so-called) for a particular group.

Women aren't at the bottom of that ladder but they aren't at the top either.

@Misstache

I echo others here; that's was an incredibly moving post and I'm sorry to hear of your experiences.

I agree that your experiences, that post as it is, and point of view, which few with have ever experienced, need to be heard somehow.

Worrysaboutalot

Is it this swimmer?

Yes, that's him. The two young men who found him cried, they were so horrified.

@Datun

Worrysaboutalot

Is it this swimmer?

Yes, that's him. The two young men who found him cried, they were so horrified.

I remembered as the two male witnesses were upset, stopped the attack and caught him. They were good men and the other male a nasty lowlife. I think he only served 3 months in the end! Ridiculous sentence.

'That if you put a girl in underwear in a swimming pool and add alcohol then boys will be boys.'

Good god, a judge actually said that? An actual judge? I knew that there are some daft old fossils in the judiciary but words fail me.

Sorry, having re-read the article, that's a summary, not an exact quote but the actual quote is arguably worse -

'He criticised the parents of the student who held the party where the assault took place for allowing “coeds and female people to swim in their underwear in their swimming pool” and for “16-year-olds to bring liquor to a party”.

“And you wonder how these things happen. Well, that’s how these things happen,” he said (my bolds).

“‘These things happen’ is shorthand for ‘boys will be boys’,” says Professor Dauber.

“That if you put a girl in underwear in a swimming pool and add alcohol then boys will be boys.

“He’s completely minimising the severity of the offence.”

@Misstache thank you for sharing your story. You are absolutely right - if a person wants to transition above all else, it comes with sacrifices. Every major life decision does. Please do consider putting your story on a blog or sharing it with a trustworthy journalist. It will encourage others to speak up.