Scotland introducing GRA bill 3rd March

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

As a Scot I'm ashamed to admit I'm not sure what the process usually is, but it sounds as if this is being rushed:

The @scotgov are introducing their Bill to reform the GRA on Thursday 3rd March, in 9 days. Unusually, this will be by Ministerial Statement @ScotParl. Clearly they’re expecting a hostile reaction - but from whom?
twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1496229207151681539?t=rkNOsQ_vJXmdr4SjdjWtQg&s=19

For Women Scotland have noted that this means that recent ScotGov meetings with feminist groups about the bill were just window dressing and could not have been actually considered.

Just who is pulling their strings? You might think there's a contract out on senior members of Scot gov from their unseemly haste in this. Get it passed else!

Deeply depressing.

I honestly want to weep
I was so relieved by FWS's success & interested by the complete silence in response I had hoped that meant there was some serious thinking going on but now I wonder if it was simply to shorten the news cycle.

Bastard SNP MSP isn't replying to me anymore & despite knowing he knows how dangerous this is for our daughters he will do exactly what he's telt

If they intend to push self ID through without a spousal exit clause it will mean one party can retroactively change a marriage contract without the consent of the other.

See the debate on GRA in Westminster thread. They seem to have quietly removed spousal veto, not sure if it applies for whole UK?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/activists-call-for-inquiry-into-rape-crisis-centre-trans-appointment-pghdvkxsl?shareToken=edeaa7e1c9f5ff6519ae1bdb16683a11

This is about MW, a transwoman in charge of a rape crisis centre who, crucially, does not have a GRC. It looks like the ruling on Friday is going to force some changes.

Is there any chance they are bringing it forward, and introducing it via Ministerial statement, which I gather is unusual, in order to can it? Dare we hope?

No, I don't think there's any reason to hope.

I'm really not looking forward to the clogging up / decease of the Scottish NHS for all that top and bottom surgery, plus future attempts to undo or treat some of the damage.

Unfortunately Scotland was always going to be an example to the rest of the country.

Still, this raises the question of whether Westminster will take the Scotgov to court again where their lawmaking has crossed the line, as they did with recent legislation on rights of the child.

Cynics might say this gives the SNP another chance to cry about how WM imposes its will on Scotland, although tbh I think most people see through this tactic now. It's more a case of how many pieces of shittily thought through legislation have been scrapped, amended or struck down because the SNP just will not listen to any criticism, constructive or otherwise.

We see you, SNP. We see you blame all your shit decisions on Westminster, evade and shirk responsibility for every failure, we see you constantly defensively attack other people and never, ever admit your own failings, blindspots and weaknesses.

May elections will be interesting.

I'm utterly furious about this. How can they (sturgeon ) ignore women's voices like this and claim to be feminist.

My only hope is that this will enrage people so much that they will turn against the snp in future elections.

Best option would be to remove the vote from women with troublesome opinions, probably.

I don't even know what to say about this. I don't have the energy for it some days. This is just awful, and it seems completely hopeless and inevitable.

We have a toothless media and spineless MSPs. I'm despairing at the lack of scrutiny and retreating into my place of comfort where I know my loved ones are unlikely to be affected... but that's really not the point.

Fuckers.

Sorry to raise a false alarm, I just checked, the Divorce, Dissolution and Separation Act 2020 will apply in England and Wales only.
That Act is what the government is using to ‘remove’ the spousal veto from GRA, as Mike Freer the Equalities Minister said in debate recently. He didn’t specify in the debate that this removal was limited geographically though.

So where does that leave the rest of the UK? And could English and Welsh women bring a case, I wonder, if the rest of the UK is still retaining this legal right?

We see you, SNP. We see you blame all your shit decisions on Westminster, evade and shirk responsibility for every failure, we see you constantly defensively attack other people and never, ever admit your own failings, blindspots and weaknesses.

This. Absolutely this. Spineless Scottish Labour not doing a whole lot better, though,

I don't really understand why the spousal veto is seen as so significant (on both sides). The UK allows no-fault divorce, and I'm pretty sure I've heard that divorce settlements don't depend on the cause of the divorce.

So presumably, if a spouse isn't happy with the GRC they can just divorce at that point.

What am I missing?

@Slothtoes if I remember correctly the current grc ast in Scotland doesn't have a spousal veto

So presumably, if a spouse isn't happy with the GRC they can just divorce at that point.

What am I missing?

Read this:
makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/post/trans-widows-and-the-spousal-veto-a-modern-fable-of-male-entitlement

Many women cannot get divorced due to religious or cultural reasons so this provision enables them to have an escape route from the marriage. Even when women can divorce, without the consent of their husband it can take five years.

More details about the problems for women of removing this clause at the link.

But self id being forced in is obviously really bad

Ah, thanks OldCrone

SNP are totally captured and totally out of control. I will never accept a man in female spaces regardless of how he identifies

@JustWaking

I don't really understand why the spousal veto is seen as so significant (on both sides). The UK allows no-fault divorce, and I'm pretty sure I've heard that divorce settlements don't depend on the cause of the divorce.

So presumably, if a spouse isn't happy with the GRC they can just divorce at that point.

What am I missing?

Imagine trying to divorce and go through all the process of sorting out the joint mortgage, bank accounts etc, when the other party no longer exists and their new documents show a different name to the one on your marriage licence. To complicate matters you are not permitted to out them as trans. Thats why they can obtain an interim GRC, to allow their spouse to legally exit the marriage.

@DomesticatedZombie

Best option would be to remove the vote from women with troublesome opinions, probably.

Honestly, looking at the speed, dispatch and absolute lack of conscience on which women's sex based rights and voices and even the right not to be raped in jail have been hurled aside for the benefit of men, political agendas and money, it makes me bloody terrified as to how fast women's votes could be equally easily snatched back by men.

In the next few years, as all this starts to bite, women having the vote is going to become very, very inconvenient. We've already had NI's call to remove political representation for women who won't do what men want.

Let's not joke about these things. The sheer depth of misogyny embedded in the UK is revealed ever more clearly.

Cause for hope here? ScotGov doesn't have the authority to change the GRA? (Is this the fight they actually want? Bad WM stopping us lovely lot at Holyrood rhetoric)

mobile.twitter.com/DalgetySusan/status/1496514691794976776

ScotGov has just tweeted:

"Social Justice Secretary @ShonaRobison will give a statement to @ScotParl on 3 March on the introduction of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill.

We committed to introducing this Bill within this parliamentary year.

We propose to reform the process for trans men and women to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate.

A GRC means a trans person can apply for legal gender recognition. This has been the case for 18 years.

We are proposing to simplify the process of obtaining a GRC. Our proposals do not introduce new rights for trans people.

The Scottish Government will continue to uphold the rights and protections that women and girls currently have under the Equality Act."