How does this help gay or gender-non-conforming children?

[JellySaurus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60464528

How does two straight men dressing up as an over-sexualised parody of women help gay or GNC children? Or even gay or GNC boys? Because it certainly doesn't help gay or GNC girls.

A friend's ds is a primary school teacher. NQT (or whatever it's called now. Anyway, young.) For Mental Health Week recently he wore a different feminine item to school every day. A dress, or skirt, or make-up, or accessory. That is supportive for GNC boys. That is teaching them all tolerance and acceptance of self-expression. Not teaching them that the only alternative to gung ho masculinity is to mock women while hiding yourself within the caricature.

Express what though. What exactly are they expressing. Wanna wear make up and a dress fine wear make up and a dress

Reduce women to heels boobs and make up, make fish jokes and call yourself flow job and act like.you are doing the world a favour by introducing children to porny ideas of womanhood from.imside a man's head...no thanks

is no more appropriate in mainstream life than a gimp mask
Well we'll have to agree to disagree then.

Horrible. How are girls and women supposed to feel, seeing two men dress up in a parody of their bodies and the stereotypical crap men IMPOSED on women as if it is a part of US?

And the man in the article saying his greatest fear was to be laughed at by other men....so he decides to bond with them over laughing at women instead.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

is no more appropriate in mainstream life than a gimp mask Well we'll have to agree to disagree then.

There's no difference.

How are girls and women supposed to feel, seeing two men dress up in a parody of their bodies and the stereotypical crap men IMPOSED on women as if it is a part of US?
Don't know about anybody else, but I do know I never gave a shiny shit what others were doing.
I never wore make up, never wanted to and didn't care that everyone else did.
Going by your argument, I see others in make up and think I should be too.
So what if men want to drag up in high heels and a shit ton of make up?
I don't take it personally.
As I said, they're not being me.
They're being themselves.

It’s hardly trailblazing for LGBTQ youth, it’s the back end of the very popular drag bandwagon because that’s what Ant & Dec d . Mr Tumble has been dressing up as a woman (Aunt Polly) for years on kids TV.

Being themselves.

What does that even mean.

If " yourself" is a misogynistic twit who hates and mocks women then being themselves is the last thing they should be being tbh

And if women are supposed to busy not give a shit what these men are doing then why can't these boys do the same?

You cant say one set of people shouldn't care what others think then think that another set of people should be able to.mock women this way sonthey aren't bullied.

Which is it?

Being themselves.

What does that even mean.

Feeling able to dress how they want and if that's in glittery dresses, lots of make up, high heels and big wigs, then fair enough.

Why can't they be expected to exhibit the same behaviour as everyone else though?

ie not mocking others or being misogynistic.

How are they mocking you exactly?
Or are all men who ever dare to wear make up or a dress just doing it to piss the women off?

Because drag by its very nature is a liss take. Male ideas of what femininity is and what it means. With a heavy porn influence.

Flow job
Popping cherry

Anyone?

No one needs to be able to express themselves like that. What a low.bar of behaviour expectations you have of people

I just can’t really get worked up about drag tbh, I’m gay and I go to drag shows and clubs and have never had any issues with any of the men there. Cannot say the same for men in regular bars and clubs. Women are more under threat from heterosexual men than gay men who like to dress up as women.

I can understand why some women dislike it as it is grossly exaggerated caricatures of women, and some drag queens can be at times offensive towards women in their acts, but overall I find most performances are in good humour, it’s only the few instances where I’ve thought “that’s actually offensive and not funny”, but I recognise that just the concept of men pretending to women for comedy can be offensive to some women.

I just personally feel like as a woman straight men actually are my biggest concern and pose a much bigger threat, so I can’t really get worked up about gay men in costumes making the odd offensive or ill humoured joke.

I do think the mother in the video is bizarre....make up isn't appropriate daily wear for any 12-year-old, surely, boy or girl? Most schools would not permit it. What he does in his free time away from school is his family's business, and he can dress up for fun and enjoyment away from any bullies.

@HipTightOnions makes the point that Ant&Dec are hardly role models for this age group. I'm sure they're popular, but what they do or don't do is not going to influence teens and pre-teens.

It's just fantastic to see how far we've come in thirty years

I miss punk and the 80s, when young men (masculine or effeminate, straight or gay) wore makeup and androgenous-dressing girls didn’t equate ’trans’. It was cool, it was fluid and non-committal self-expression. We’ve gone very wrong.

And ‘gender non-conforming children’ were just known as ‘children’

I accidentally started another thread on this as missed this one sorry. So I've come over here

Its so fucking infuriating. It's so wrong. WTF can't men just wear a skirt or eyeliner or whatever the fuck they feel they want to wear, without having to do a full parody of sexualised fetishisation of female stereotypes. The irony is that GC feminists are the women against stereotypes who would back a man wearing eyeliner not thinking of Robert Smith here at all Drag however is just reinforcing sexual stereotyping, taking that ball and fucking running with it into the far distance.

And ‘gender non-conforming children’ were just known as ‘children

Yy

I HATE when organisations talk abkut helping gender diverse kids. So not even trans kids. Just kids not complying with gender " norms"

There's nothing wrong with them ffs

@Elsiebear90

I just can’t really get worked up about drag tbh, I’m gay and I go to drag shows and clubs and have never had any issues with any of the men there. Cannot say the same for men in regular bars and clubs. Women are more under threat from heterosexual men than gay men who like to dress up as women.

I can understand why some women dislike it as it is grossly exaggerated caricatures of women, and some drag queens can be at times offensive towards women in their acts, but overall I find most performances are in good humour, it’s only the few instances where I’ve thought “that’s actually offensive and not funny”, but I recognise that just the concept of men pretending to women for comedy can be offensive to some women.

I just personally feel like as a woman straight men actually are my biggest concern and pose a much bigger threat, so I can’t really get worked up about gay men in costumes making the odd offensive or ill humoured joke.

Well you've summed it up in one sentence, you say it yourself.

"it is grossly exaggerated caricatures of women"

It is offensive in its very nature. Do people go round making exaggerated caricatures of any other groups? And if not, why not? Because it's fucking offensive. Unless it's against women of course then it's just a laugh

Fuck sexual stereotyping, we need to eradicate it not encourage it.

And the man in the article saying his greatest fear was to be laughed at by other men....so he decides to bond with them over laughing at women instead.

This. But you must beee kiiind, Laurie. We must applaud whatever they do.

What's that saying again...men fear other men will laugh at them, women fear men will kill them.

@DoubleTweenQueen

I miss punk and the 80s, when young men (masculine or effeminate, straight or gay) wore makeup and androgenous-dressing girls didn’t equate ’trans’. It was cool, it was fluid and non-committal self-expression. We’ve gone very wrong.

So do i

Still find is fascinating that black face (is rightly unacceptable) but a parody of women (pretty insulting parody at that) is perfectly acceptable and even a good thing.

“tiktok

Ant & Dec's performance was fun. I'm not keen on any overt sexualisation in drag, to children, but they held back. It's for adults, it's a parody.

Ant & Dec put on a costume for entertainment purposes and disguised themselves in attire they would not wear in the street. They're not showing anyone 'be who you want to be' FFS!

It's got nothing to do with LGBTQ+ or GNC kids.

You might as well say a trapeze artist in leotard and spangly tights and makeup is helpful and liberating“

I was not sure if you meant that it shouldn’t be seen as having anything to do with gay and gender non-conforming kids, or that it doesn’t.

The BBC website treats it as if it does have something to do with them.