Do Britons favour trans rights? The truth is most people self-identify as ‘don’t knows’

[Igneococcus]

Sarah Ditum in the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c0b5243e-91a2-11ec-ba83-35d92f80c266?shareToken=b458bcbffb9845ce0cdebd9865b40391

What do you think of this, and of the other linked article you posted? It would be good to hear your opinions rather than just dropping links, which feels like you want others to do the work for you.

No need to snark at Igneococcus, who does a daily sweep of the Times and drops gratefully received share tokens for MNers. Thank you Igneococcus!

Thanks for posting, I hadn't seen this yet. That's a very reasoned, balanced article from Sarah, and I think she's right.

Thanks igneo for your kind Times links. I, for one, appreciate your continued kindness.

And Sarah D continues to deliver.

a further thanks for the share tokens @Igneococcus

Please don't let the snark stop you!

Sarah Ditum makes such a good point regarding the back room shenanigans that have surrounded the trans movement to date

📰 Thanks

When ever I fill out a form and it asks me my gender or if my gender is different to the one assigned at birth I click prefer not to say or dont know.

as there is no option ever for I do not believe in gender it is a social construct invented to stereotype and control women.

it is something I absolutely hate but there is no way I will say I am female gender because female gender = wearing high heels, watch sex in the city and be kind and all that utter bollocks that society forces on us.

I am my sex, I will not write I am a gender anymore then I would write that I am a religion I am not.

Thanks for the link

Yip with you velvet , I refuse to accept a gender

I'm just sharing my access to articles behind a paywall thatsnotmygolem I'm not expecting anyone to do work for me. I have written two comments in the Times though (still pending) though.

Thanks everybody else, I do sometimes feel that I drop and run, but I'm often away from internet access for a large part of the day and can't get back to any threads.

I dont trust anything written any forms or anything to give a clear view of anything. theres no options with anything so everything ends up skewed or led with deliberately confusing or charged language. god alone knows what anyone thinks I am from my answers writing out forms where I reject gender but can not articulate that I do because there is no options to do so.

Just to clarify I am talking about anything that asks public opinion, you get the public opinion at voting time. anything that actually asks is never open to getting honest answers.

Good article.

I am very grateful that Igneococcus does the work of checking the Times for articles and posting share tokens, so that I can do the work of reading them and forming my own opinions. Thank you, Igneococcus and please don't stop.

@VelvetChairGirl

When ever I fill out a form and it asks me my gender or if my gender is different to the one assigned at birth I click prefer not to say or dont know.

as there is no option ever for I do not believe in gender it is a social construct invented to stereotype and control women.

it is something I absolutely hate but there is no way I will say I am female gender because female gender = wearing high heels, watch sex in the city and be kind and all that utter bollocks that society forces on us.

I am my sex, I will not write I am a gender anymore then I would write that I am a religion I am not.

I think the headline is extremely misleading. Of course most people support trans rights. The right to not be discriminated against etc.

‘Rights’ in this case though refers to something that no other group has a right to - changing fundamental facts on your birth certificate.

Oops didn’t mean to quote Velvet there though I totally agree with her.

@Floisme

I am very grateful that Igneococcus does the work of checking the Times for articles and posting share tokens, so that I can do the work of reading them and forming my own opinions. Thank you, Igneococcus and please don't stop.

Exactly this ^

It's really useful to have links to relevant articles across the MSM so I can read and process for myself, and I'm always grateful to those who take the trouble to post them. I totally don't need anyone else's opinions on them, though of course it's always interesting to share thoughts, which others may then agree with or challenge.

Care to add your thoughts on Sarah Ditum's article Golem?

I think posting the link without comment Is good

Posting a link with the order discuss is unpleasant

The picture on that article is quite amusing, some young people at some sort of trans protest march. One, obviously a young woman, holding a sign saying "Binary is for Computers". Well yes everyone is "non binary" because humans aren't "binary". Do they even understand what they're protesting about?

When ever I fill out a form and it asks me my gender or if my gender is different to the one assigned at birth I click prefer not to say or dont know

Me too. It's my little silent protest. I don't have a gender.

I am my sex, I will not write I am a gender anymore then I would write that I am a religion I am not.

Me too. The Odeon probably didn't expect the mini lecture on women's rights that I gave them in the feedback form after watching a movie, and it asked my 'gender': male, female, prefer not to say, other (box to explain provided)

Another saying thanks for the share token Igneo! Will read asap

@ThatsNotMyGolem

What do you think of this, and of the other linked article you posted? It would be good to hear your opinions rather than just dropping links, which feels like you want others to do the work for you.

You've missed the fact that searching for an interesting articles and providing share token is what @Igneococcus does on a regular basis.

Might look like plopping, but is actually a much appreciated resource.

Not sure where to put this, but found this comment in the Times very interesting. Not given his name as I do not have his permission, but I assume ok as it is a public comment. Probably not the right thread but interesting anyway

My letter in The Australian, our leading newspaper, a few days ago:

It is a fact that virtually all human beings are born as biologically male or female. If someone born of one sex decides that they would prefer to be the other sex, that is a personal choice for which they must take full responsibility. They can not demand that society change to suit them, they must adapt in light of the reality of biological sex. Their choice does not give them rights to, for example, as a born-male play female sport or enter female dressing-rooms. And such areas should have the right to exclude those not born of the sex which the facility is designed for.

This is not trans-phobia, this is reality. If you make a trans choice, and people can accommodate you in that change, fine. But they should not be compelled to do so or to accept your self-re-definition. - Several hundred online posters had similar views, I didn't see any to the contrary. Although several of my friends would have abused me if they'd seen the letter.

Thanks Igneococcus.

Its a good article. And she's right.

However, if 33% of people have been following the debate closely, I think that's quite high.

There's no earthly way most people think it's fair to have men compete as women. The only difference between thinking they should, and thinking they shouldn't, is people not understanding that they retain their advantage, (and genitalia).

From my observation, the reason why so many people are confused, and don't like to talk about it, is because they think they're missing something. They don't want to put their foot in it.

And she's totally right about the reason they are missing it. It's 'no debate', and making it appear incredibly rude and offensive to call a man a man.

Which is why women like Posie Parker and Julia Long appeal to so many. Speaking without fear is very revealing.