Another legal challenge in a school

[McDuffy]

School said boy, six, would be transphobic if he expressed confusion over classmate

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b1d3c552-8cec-11ec-87eb-ee84fabc72c9?shareToken=d3ade170b13d61b9d827b727ab8c5ab8

I have a 5yo and can empathise with these parents

I've joined my local church recently and a part of the reason is because of opening up the faith school option to my child.

I find I actually enjoy going though personally.

I digress. Yes, I will enquire, maybe under a different name having read this though. This story gets more and more bizarre.

Its a massive safeguarding issue to teach children to ignore their eyes and their instincts.

If we teach children that people can be any sex l, what happens when a strange man makes a little girl feel uncomfortable, but insists to her 'don't worry I am a mummy!'...

It is absolutely sick.

We need to teach children to be observant to follow their instincts, to tell the truth. All of this to make a group of fucking priviliged numpties feel better about themselves. The selfishness of this movement winds me up so much.

The problem with this is that there's a vulnerable child at the centre of it. Thus any challenge can be interpreted as being about the child rather than the foolish captured adults - and in a small community that's hard.

This is why certain adult groups are so determined to place even the youngest of children at the centre of their battles - because any challenge can be called out as 'bullying' or being unkind. Much harder for people to challenge than objecting to 50 year old Jim, now Jane, demanding to undress alongside women in the swimming pool changing rooms.

The selfishness of this movement winds me up so much

Hear hear.

I mean the trans kids are placed in equal danger. A preteen /teenage biological female ( the current majority cohort ) using the male changing area . Massive risk to their safety if its discovered they are female which let's face it unless they have been taking testosterone for years will be entirely obvious.

If this was really about making things easier fir kids they'd want them to have the same levels if safeguarding as everyone else.

This is entirely about validating identities and decisions of adults.

One could also argue that anyone content/happy with the decisions and actions on life they have taken it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks. Uou wouldn't need to encourage others to do the same.

If you need validation how sure are you really

@sacredfeminina

Its a massive safeguarding issue to teach children to ignore their eyes and their instincts.

If we teach children that people can be any sex l, what happens when a strange man makes a little girl feel uncomfortable, but insists to her 'don't worry I am a mummy!'...

It is absolutely sick.

We need to teach children to be observant to follow their instincts, to tell the truth. All of this to make a group of fucking priviliged numpties feel better about themselves. The selfishness of this movement winds me up so much.

Yes, agree with you. It’s a horrendous scenario.

They are grooming children to not trust their own instincts.

This is a child abusers tactic. Make the child doubt their boundaries and then you reformulate them so it is easier for you to abuse the child.

In my volunteer work with abuse victims I’ve seen it many times. It’s scary that a school is doing this. You can be sure that none of the adults there are going to able to properly safeguard the children.

I too would pull my children out.

Yep. The wolf in Little Red Riding Hood isn’t a wolf. It’s grandma. Don’t believe your eyes.

Then. Whoops.

@Goatsaregreat

YouSetTheTone I also had a similarly creepy letter from Nick Gibb dismissing the safeguarding concerns raised about mixed sex changing rooms, showers and toilets in schools. I suspect he was very influential (along with the self interested senior civil servant Slater) in enabling Stonewall, GIRES etc to gain privileged access schools and children with zero due diligence being conducted (let alone awareness of the Nolan principles). Which is why we are in this mess.

I can only hope the exchange opened my MP’s eyes a little, as he was the intermediary. My MP did say, when he passed on the response I mentioned, that he didn’t think I would be very pleased…

Is it too much to hope that Nick Gibb’s departure will bring any positive changes of direction in the DofE? Or is it too entrenched?

That's a good question YouSetTheTone. I'd hope the DfE are becoming more aware of their responsibilities to children rather than their mates in GIRES, Stonewall etc, but have yet to see evidence.
I know from some senior leaders in schools that there's a growing awareness that what is happening is not right - they're seeing vulnerable children with numerous mental health issues being in the grip of a social contagion and realising that this is not emotionally healthy and actually dangerous for children.
With parents increasingly challenging schools, there'll be some tough situations ahead but I'm cautiously optimistic that teachers are beginning to see an adult agenda led by exceptionally self interested adults who have no place in schools. But if the captured DfE don't stop funding the lobby groups then ....

Gaslighting children and teaching them you have to pretend to believe if you don't actually believe otherwise youre a bad person. It is so damaging.
Yet another WTAF moment. They keep on coming.

The letter from the school’s head teacher and the chairwoman of the governors warned that pupils would be viewed as transphobic if they demonstrated an “inability to believe a transgender person is actually a ‘real’ female or male”.

Fucking ridiculous

Scares me witless that people like this have any input into schools

@MagpiePi

A child's declaration that they are a cat, or a superhero, or that they are going to marry their daddy and live on the moon, are taken as an exploration of how they fit into the world and how they imagine things to be, but as soon as a child mentions anything about their sex or gender or behaves in a non-stereotypical way, it is an immutable truth that cannot only not be questioned, it must be affirmed and reinforced by everyone around the child.

It is fecking ridiculous...

@MagpiePi this

My child spent bloody ages insisting they were a puppy. We considered it cute & an extension of his Halloween costume. Kids have great imaginations. They are also very literal. This does not make a 5 year old transphobic! .

My local education authority makes a lot of use of the Cornwall guidance, and quotes quite a bit of it. One part that caught my eye was this:

“Unlike most of the protected characteristics, such as sex, race and religion, but like disability, this protection works in one direction only […]”

(Their emphasis)

I think that’s a false equivalence. I can’t think of any disadvantage to a non-disabled person from adaptations made for the benefit of disabled people. But by insisting that it’s one direction only, they’ve ignored (or not even thought about) the effects on non-transgender children; indeed, the sentence continues: “not being transgendered is not a protected characteristic.”

So if a pupil is confused, or even distressed, by the changes of name/pronouns/clothing then their feelings can be ignored because they don’t have a “protected characteristic”. What about the protected characteristic of age? A young child should have the right for their age to be taken into account.

You may want to check with your church's view on gender ideology and whether its linked in any way with Oasis Charity and Steve Chalke. The other week I was listening to Chalke promote transgenderism, spinning parts of the Bible to justify his assertion that all Christians should joyfully embrace transgenderism. Very disturbing given that he is a very influential and wealthy man.

@Musomama1

You may want to check with your church's view on gender ideology and whether its linked in any way with Oasis Charity and Steve Chalke. The other week I was listening to Chalke promote transgenderism, spinning parts of the Bible to justify his assertion that all Christians should joyfully embrace transgenderism. Very disturbing given that he is a very influential and wealthy man.

In the employment context:
You can take non-disabled people into account when considering what adjustments to make for a disabled person. You are only required to make "reasonable adjustments". An adjustment which is very detrimental to other staff is arguably not a "reasonable" adjustment.
But transgender people don't have the right to reasonable adjustments. Those with a GRC have the right not to be treated detrimentally because of their GRC status (so in comparison with non GRC staff). So it's unlawful discrimination not to promote a GRC person because you reckon GRC people in general don't make good leaders. However, it isn't unlawfully discriminatory not to promote a fat person because you reckon fat people in general don't make good leaders. And it isn't unlawfully discriminatory if, for example, the trans CEO of your company only ever promotes trans people (whether or not they have a GRC). It could be grounds for a constructive unfair dismissal claim though.

@hoteltango

“not being transgendered is not a protected characteristic.”

Shocking that they put that into words.I imagine they did to insure nothing prevents TRAs from encouraging/grooming vunerable kids to transition.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Don't most transitioning preteen /teenage biological female stay in female change rooms?

[quote DontLikeCrumpets]@hoteltango

“not being transgendered is not a protected characteristic.”

Shocking that they put that into words.I imagine they did to insure nothing prevents TRAs from encouraging/grooming vunerable kids to transition.[/quote]
I imagine they're telling schools that it doesn't matter if children who are not trans are uncomfortable with what's happening to toilets, changing rooms and sport.
In fact, currently being trans with no GRC (all trans children) is not a protected characteristic either.

There was a recent American case in the news. From memory, a girl to boy trans secondary school student was not allowed to share the boys' changing room, but was given her own private place to get changed. She successfully sued - I think she got $4 million.
That's money that has to be paid by the taxpayer. In the UK, any compensation (if/when the law changes) would be hugely lower.

Don't most transitioning preteen /teenage biological female stay in female change rooms

One would hope so.

However there was that case in the states of a male teacher being fired because he refused to enter the boys locker room to supervise as there was female child in the showers.

At our secondary school the girls who identify as boys are asking to use the boys changing rooms! Apparently rumour has it the these girls have been allowed to play dport with the boys. I thought sport at secondary had to be segregated due to fairness and safety. I've had a look on Safe Schools Alliance but can't see anything on mixed sport. Does anyone know? Of course if the school allows girls to play sport with boys it won't be long until a boy who identifies as a girl joins the girls for sport. Definitely a social contagion at our school and the girls who identify as boys all seem to be in the same social groups.

@Swear

There was a recent American case in the news. From memory, a girl to boy trans secondary school student was not allowed to share the boys' changing room, but was given her own private place to get changed. She successfully sued - I think she got $4 million. That's money that has to be paid by the taxpayer. In the UK, any compensation (if/when the law changes) would be hugely lower.

I remember that case. What was particularly enraging about it (and obviously all this stuff is enraging) is that the school were clearly trying to protect her. Imagine allowing a teenage girl into a boys' changing room. You don't need to think very hard or very long to see what would happen. And the stupid girl and her presumably equally stupid parents sued. (Would they have sued the school if they'd allowed her in the changing room and she'd been sexually assaulted? Probably yes.)

@Whatwouldscullydo

Don't most transitioning preteen /teenage biological female stay in female change rooms

One would hope so.

However there was that case in the states of a male teacher being fired because he refused to enter the boys locker room to supervise as there was female child in the showers.

That poor teacher. Fired for following basic safeguarding rules.

@FemaleAndLearning

At our secondary school the girls who identify as boys are asking to use the boys changing rooms! Apparently rumour has it the these girls have been allowed to play dport with the boys. I thought sport at secondary had to be segregated due to fairness and safety. I've had a look on Safe Schools Alliance but can't see anything on mixed sport. Does anyone know? Of course if the school allows girls to play sport with boys it won't be long until a boy who identifies as a girl joins the girls for sport. Definitely a social contagion at our school and the girls who identify as boys all seem to be in the same social groups.

And it won’t be long until a girl sustains a, possibly very serious, injury. Rugby!!

Why are the adults letting the children change the rules?