Living in a woman's body - The Guardian

[justaftb]

Was surprised and heartened to see a piece with this title by Eve Ensler this morning. Now there is a second piece by a woman in Afghanistan, so it is obviously a series. Waiting for the inevitable piece by a male person telling us what is is like to "live in a woman's body".

@Moglie

Juno Lawson’s piece is about book censorship. It’s not part of this series.

On the tablet edition, this piece IS part of the series, under the headers Living in a woman's body, then 'The story of my body', along with Emma Thompson et al.

It's definitely part of the series in the print edition!

The Juno Dawson piece is online now.

It’s about the joy of being able to remodel one’s body through surgery, which has given Dawson a more preferable body but not changed anything internally.

I don’t know where to start to be honest.

'I don’t know where to start to be honest.'

My thoughts exactly when I read it

Waiting for the inevitable piece by a male person telling us what is is like to "live in a woman's body".

The wait is over. Ffs.

but not changed anything internally.

Well no. Still as male as when junoself was born.

@Enough4me

It's not possible to inhabit a body, your body is your body, you don't pop in and out. From conception a single female or male cell is created which, if it multiplies implants and grows, becomes a complete person. We are not a being with a shell. If we were, we'd all be popping into younger shells to live forever.

Quite. The alternative is that you believe that there are a lot of "selves" floating around waiting for a sperm and egg to fuse so that they can move into a human body.

I've just remembered that I went to school with a girl who was a Mormon, and this was kind of what she thought, she explained there was like a bunch or disembodied souls waiting to incarnate, and when the pressure built up, they would kind of burst through - like a weak spot in a membrane- and THAT is why contraception would sometimes fail, because there was just too many souls waiting for a sperm and egg to join.
So, this strikes me as a perfectly plausible mechanism for people being born in the wrong body. Build up of female souls, pressure too much, some of them accidentaly burst through just when there's a Y sperm reaching an ovum.
It all makes perfect sense mow.

To be fair Juno Dawson is accepting of the fact that their sex is male and their comments in the article relate to the changes they've made to their body to make them feel happier and more outwardly similar to a woman. I don't know why they are being interviewed in this series though because it's not about 'feeling' or 'identifying' as a woman, it's about living in a 'woman's body' which Juno, by their own admission, isn't.

It would have been far more interesting to have an interview with someone like Freddie McConnell or Jake Graf and ask them what it feels like to identify as a man in a female body.I'm hooked on Freddie's Instagram at the moment with their tiny newborn and juggling their life as a single parent with two under three. Their features have softened since they've come off the Testosterone and I'm fascinated and desperately trying to understand how they could be snuggling their newborn while recovering from a C-section while believing themselves to be a man. It was heartbreaking to read about their sadness about being unable to breastfeed because they've had a double mastectomy in order to feel more comfortable in their body. I'm trying to understand I really am.

it's about living in a 'woman's body' which Juno, by their own admission, isn't.

I don’t read it like that at all. If Juno didn’t think Juno was actually living in a woman’s body then Juno would have refused to partake in the column, but Juno didn’t.

I mean the whole article is bullshit, so editorially dissonant with the ones that go before it. Take this bit:

None of us are beholden to our bodies. That is not to say that our bodies aren’t vital; they are. Being a woman – cisgender or trans – can feel like you are being set up to fail from the start, and our bodies often affect how well we are able to function within society. But I believe in individual bodily autonomy; a refusal to let the system predetermine or limit your choices is one of the ways we attack patriarchal structures.

This is so utterly insulting to Nazia, the woman from Afghanistan, for example. If only she would refuse to let the system of patriarchal structures limit her choices, then she’d be fiiine .

Maybe Juno and Nazia could trade lives for a few months, and Juno could demonstrate in the real world how to attack the patriarchal structures though Juno’s refusal to let the system predetermine Juno’s choices .

You are so right
I hope Juno reads those women's stories and feels deeply ashamed

I just saw the title of the series and rolled my eyes. “Living in a woman’s body” FFS

@SayYouDontMind

To be fair Juno Dawson is accepting of the fact that their sex is male and their comments in the article relate to the changes they've made to their body to make them feel happier and more outwardly similar to a woman. I don't know why they are being interviewed in this series though because it's not about 'feeling' or 'identifying' as a woman, it's about living in a 'woman's body' which Juno, by their own admission, isn't.

It would have been far more interesting to have an interview with someone like Freddie McConnell or Jake Graf and ask them what it feels like to identify as a man in a female body.I'm hooked on Freddie's Instagram at the moment with their tiny newborn and juggling their life as a single parent with two under three. Their features have softened since they've come off the Testosterone and I'm fascinated and desperately trying to understand how they could be snuggling their newborn while recovering from a C-section while believing themselves to be a man. It was heartbreaking to read about their sadness about being unable to breastfeed because they've had a double mastectomy in order to feel more comfortable in their body. I'm trying to understand I really am.

I really don’t agree that it’s “heartbreaking” to read about someone’s sadness at not being able to breastfeed because the person made a choice to have a double mastectomy. What on earth did this person expect??

Surely Freddie becoming a mother through normal sexual reproduction highlights to Freddie what being a woman is?

Freddie was an adult who made a choice to have a double mastectomy. I think it's entirely reprehensible to blame other people for failing to realise that removing your breasts would mean you would be unable to breastfeed.

@Clymene

Freddie was an adult who made a choice to have a double mastectomy. I think it's entirely reprehensible to blame other people for failing to realise that removing your breasts would mean you would be unable to breastfeed.

I haven't read the material about this, I must make that clear, but perhaps the point is that Freddie struggles to reconcile the desire/need to have a male-looking body with the desire/need to have a baby and breastfeed it.

I haven't read the material about this, I must make that clear, but perhaps the point is that Freddie struggles to reconcile the desire/need to have a male-looking body with the desire/need to have a baby and breastfeed it.

Shouldn't Freddie have considered that before having a double mastectomy? Perhaps a little more counselling before deciding to have surgery would have been a good idea.

And what sort of surgeon removes a young woman's healthy breasts just because she 'desires' a male-looking body?

Shouldn't Freddie have considered that before having a double mastectomy? Perhaps a little more counselling before deciding to have surgery would have been a good idea. It would be interesting to know what if any counselling there was, sure. As I said, I don't know the background and realise I'm not very well informed on this.

And what sort of surgeon removes a young woman's healthy breasts just because she 'desires' a male-looking body?
Again, a good question. I don't know on what criteria this kind of surgery is done or refused.

Looking forward to the series "living in a man's body."

@WarriorN

Looking forward to the series "living in a man's body."

Excellent point. Might tweet them...

Sorry, every time this pops up in my timeline it just makes me think of tape worms 🤢

Do you think transwomen actually think that having some silicone bags implanted in their chest and some bone shaved off their face means they are now living in a woman's body? I cannot imagine such a level of delusion. And The Guardian trying to gaslight its readers over it too. Does anyone else feel like they are living in some strange dystopian future straight out of an Orwell novel.

It's the fact that women can't escape being women. Anywhere.

I think that Juno Dawson's sense of control over Juno Dawson's body is at such odds with the other articles under this heading that it actually makes a point about the difference between Juno Dawson and the women that neither Juno Dawson or the Guardian actually intended to make.

That's an interesting point.