Living in a woman's body - The Guardian

[justaftb]

Was surprised and heartened to see a piece with this title by Eve Ensler this morning. Now there is a second piece by a woman in Afghanistan, so it is obviously a series. Waiting for the inevitable piece by a male person telling us what is is like to "live in a woman's body".

"Eve Ensler is capable of making up her own mind, she hasn't been 'got', do you not realise how ridiculous that sounds? Or are women not allowed to decide to recognise and support trans women? We've all been 'got' have we? Is that not incredibly sexist?"

@theqentity - no, it's not incredibly sexist. It's incredibly disappointed.

Vagina Monologues doesn't need to support trans women, though, they might qualify for the monologue bit, I suppose.

It would have been interesting if a trans man had been included. You know, the ones with vaginas. Isn't it fascinating that no one "decides to recognise and support" them?

I'm sure you're right, and that she did make up her own mind after a bit of gotting. As did I.

I’m just infuriated by the title. I’m not ‘living in a woman’s body’; I’m not a Cartesian dualist who thinks there’s some essence of me that just happens to be inhabiting this particular lot of skin. I AM a woman’s body; I am me. There’s no disembodied me. Without my body I don’t have a consciousness. Even to set up the series under this title suggests that the body is somehow optional to being a woman.

Ah The Guardian you never let us down!!! If only the woman from Afghanistan had thought to identify out of her oppression eh

If only, Eyeballs. I wonder that the Guardian didn't suggest it to her....

I’m just infuriated by the title. I’m not ‘living in a woman’s body’; I’m not a Cartesian dualist who thinks there’s some essence of me that just happens to be inhabiting this particular lot of skin.

Same here, Brown. To be honest, the title made me think of parasites. And I'd love to know how they justified shoehorning a TW into the series when the whole point is that they're upset about not having a woman's body.

Living in a woman's body. What an odd title, my first thought is fetus, my second thought is parasite. Which one to they mean?

are women not allowed to decide to recognise and support trans women?

Of course women can support anyone they like, theqentity. But Vagina Monologues was meant to be about people with vaginas, ie women. Transwomen are, by definition, male. Any surgical reconstruction of their male genitals is simply that -- not a vagina.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

are women not allowed to decide to recognise and support trans women?

Of course women can support anyone they like, theqentity. But Vagina Monologues was meant to be about people with vaginas, ie women. Transwomen are, by definition, male. Any surgical reconstruction of their male genitals is simply that -- not a vagina.

I don't agree. And I don't have to.

@IntermittentParps

I really don't think I'm getting this. Why are people angry about the contributors other than Juno Dawson?

Not angry with them. Angry with the absolutely bleeding obvious. The articles and the headline are a great set up for Juno et al. And look, here They come!

There is NEVER a run of articles about women that is solely about women. Never in the Guardian and rarely anywhere else!

Now, explain wy we shouldn't be angry abut that?

Surely if they wanted to include a transgender view then we'd need to hear from a transman living in a woman's body???

A very obvious point is that a transwoman is in a man's body?? Otherwise that would just be a woman??

are women not allowed to decide to recognise and support trans women?

Well, most of us recognise them, very well indeed.

Some of us support some, the ones we know.

Does that mean we have to give up women's rights? Was that a pre-requisite?

And which bit of thinkingaboutLangClegs post don't you agree with?

It's not possible to inhabit a body, your body is your body, you don't pop in and out. From conception a single female or male cell is created which, if it multiplies implants and grows, becomes a complete person. We are not a being with a shell. If we were, we'd all be popping into younger shells to live forever.

I don't agree. And I don't have to.

Of course you can disagree, but it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference - reality trumps your 'beliefs'.

No male (or transwoman) has ever had a vagina - they have nothing to do with the vagina monologues. Transmen, however, do have vaginas, and as stated earlier it would have been interesting to hear how they feel about this. But of course transmen are female, so they are not important compared to male transwomen.

You can believe that the earth is flat, water can turn into wine, ghosts can return from the dead, or that men can become women - reality doesn't care.

Including a man in an article titled, Living in a woman's body, gives me a silence of the lambs vibe. FFS

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Ah The Guardian you never let us down!!! If only the woman from Afghanistan had thought to identify out of her oppression eh

If only, Eyeballs. I wonder that the Guardian didn't suggest it to her....

Including Juno Dawson makes the other women seem as if they're there to validate Juno Dawson. Which is pretty fucking sick.

It's a genuine shame the Guardian's need to shoehorn a transwoman in to any female space means they will probably exclude transmen. Their stories are uniquely female and so often born of the misogyny (and homophobia) many women experience. I would have wanted to read their experiences, even though I don't agree with trans ideology. I can understand the choices they make in this deeply patriarchal world, even though I don't agree they are progressive choices.

I hoped this was going to be about Frances Ryan's amazing piece today.

Including Juno Dawson makes the other women seem as if they're there to validate Juno Dawson. Which is pretty fucking sick.

That is one hell of a reach. How on earth did you get there?

Including Juno Dawson makes the other women seem as if they're there to validate Juno Dawson. Which is pretty fucking sick.

Most people won't know that Dawson has been included because it's not on the website (I'm assuming a lot more people read the online Guardian than the print version).

I lived in a woman’s body once. Lasted about 9 months. Don’t really remember it so I doubt The Guardian want my experiences.

(Had someone living in mine for a bit too. Had to evict the little bugger when she showed no signs of shifting.)

@Deliriumoftheendless

I lived in a woman’s body once. Lasted about 9 months. Don’t really remember it so I doubt The Guardian want my experiences.

(Had someone living in mine for a bit too. Had to evict the little bugger when she showed no signs of shifting.)

@Deliriumoftheendless that is true TWANW, but they were in a woman's body for 9 months like the rest of us.

Confusion now solved, can we move on?

Juno Lawson’s piece is about book censorship. It’s not part of this series.

@StrawberrySquirrelThief

I saw that but also read the bio bit at the bottom:

V (formerly Eve Ensler) is a playwright, activist and the founder of One Billion Rising, a global protest campaign to end rape and sexual violence against women (cisgender, transgender, and those who hold fluid identities that are subject to gender-based violence).

Anyone else read the bit in parentheses really fast in a deep American accent, like the side effects disclaimer at the end of a pharmaceutical ad?

Yes! I do that! I imagine the actor who, as a kid, was Caleb in American Gothic, is now in one of those CSI/NCIS shows, reading it - Lucas Black.

@Moglie

Juno Lawson’s piece is about book censorship. It’s not part of this series.

Thanks. I thought it was odd that it wasn't visible online with the other pieces in that series.

So the OP was just looking for trouble then?

Anyone else read the bit in parentheses really fast in a deep American accent, like the side effects disclaimer at the end of a pharmaceutical ad?
Yes, like in The Simpsons.