Lisa Keogh being assisted by Joanna Cherry

[Iwasonlytryingtohelp]

Does everyone remember the case of Lisa Keogh, studying law at Abertay, Dundee? She was accused of breaching the university's disciplinary guidelines and put under immense pressure coming up to her exams for stating basic "inappropriate comments" in her course. The university eventually decided to take no action. She is now raising an action against them for the stress caused. Implications for freedom of speech at university. Now good news, the great Joanna Cherry is assisting with the case!

And in related news, it's a good time of year for doing some digging.

I think I’m on the same page as you. I’d like to see her and JC wipe the floor with them. It would send a strong message. But I do think it would all get quite stressful for lisa.

What has been happening at her work?

Thanks, Beepbo - it would be great if the individual small donations were visible rather than agglomerated into large amounts because it would demonstrate that the donations really do come from very many small donors rather than a few rich ones. Given the "gender-critical feminism is backed by the wealthy American right" trope that seems pretty important, despite the extra administrative hassle?

I said the same to her. I still don’t understand the judgement. By what I can gather it’s going to take the judge months to work out what he thinks??

Good news is that they have enough money for the next stage hearing which has been put off for 6-8 weeks. If it goes full or appeal then they will need more money. I had a wee chat with Lisa on the twit.

That must be quite the relief for her. I asked how she was and she said she was fine but I struggle to believe that. I hope she has plenty of support around her.

I think its all been quite stressful.

That's fantastic news.

In terms of the backers list, if it is too hard administratively to list all of the anonymous donations separately, would it be possible to give the number of individual donors responsible for the agglomerated amount?

This is a very good point. Someone should go to her with it.

Do we have an update yet?

It looks like she lost

Copied from the other thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4700050-lisa-keogh-seems-to-have-lost-her-case-does-anyone-have-any-more-details?

The decision is here (pdf download): www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022scdun40.pdf

I haven't read it, and IADNAL in any case, but at a quick glance (para 60) it appears that "for a variety of reasons" Lisa's "averments are irrelevant".

From the start of the judgement (paras 2 and 3):

[2] These proceedings have generated some publicity. As this Judgement may be read by those who are not legally trained, it may be necessary to make two initial points. First, it only addresses the defender’s preliminary argument that the action should be dismissed without evidence being led. Second, a court may only sustain such an argument if an action is bound to fail, even assuming all the averments in a pursuer’s written pleadings are true (see e.g. Jamieson v Jamieson (1952) SC (HL) 44 at pp50 and 63).

[3] That assumption explains why I must not address two further issues which are clearly important to the pursuer - first, the truth of what happened during two courses which she undertook at the University and, second, the validity of certain gender critical beliefs which she expressed during them.

So it seems that the Sheriff agreed that: a) the university (defender)'s preliminary argument prevailed, b) that Lisa's action was bound to fail, and that c) therefore her evidence about the events themselves wasn't assessed at all because, even assuming that it was true, it wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome.

---
donquixotedelamancha

The gist of the judgement seems to be that Lisa did nothing wrong and was treated poorly but it was reasonable for the University to investigate, her complaints of harm are too vague and her argument is poorly constructedc(in law) so there was no prospect of proving direct discrimination if the case proceeded.

Oops, I screwed up the link to the pdf of the full judgement. It's here: www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2022scdun40.pdf

That image you have posted seems very low resolution. But I think you might want to explain the significance of her comments about sex and gender and where she was wrong.

Maybe you don’t understand what she was saying?

I'd be very interested to see some context around the comments you've posted @Thinkandquestion. I completely agree with the statements about sex & gender, for instance, and would appreciate reading your views.

Thanks!

(apologies some of it is a bit cringy)

Trans activist videos generally are. I'll give it a pass, but maybe you can explain it for us?

It feels like someone watched something, was carried away by what they felt was a spectacularly informed and intelligent vid and felt compelled to post without be able to explain the first thing about the screenshot they then posted.

I mean, providing the pp is not LonerBox.

I am laughing. And made it about 1/2 way through. I am surprised what people find compelling evidence these days!

What is the pixellated photo an extract from? The post seems a bit 'I've been up all night smoking and I've worked it all out!!!!' but hopefully whoever the poster is will be back at some point to expand and offer references.

I watched the entire video that @Thinkandquestion kindly shared with us. It was indeed somewhat 🙄

The presenter made a dig at JKR for not being Scottish but his own accent didn't mark him out as a Son of Scotland either. Never mind. He seems to think we have called Lisa Keogh 'the vagina lady', this seems most unlikely to me. No evidence provided of course.

There's a bit of an odd thing about Lisa saying an emergency ambulance she saw on an English motorway (bedecked with the rainbow) was an NHS one, while Our Host says it was St John Ambulance. I'm trying to find out if St John have emergency transport - the use of blue lights and sirens isn't just randomly permitted. Anyone know?

But really, don't waste your time watching it.

Yes raptor

The ridiculousness of questioning her truthfulness based on …. Da da da…. Whether the ambulance was St John or NHS.

Fuck! And this podcaster thinks they are what? Some kind of investigative journo?

pp was having a laugh.

The video presenter was also taking Lisa to task because of the way headlines and news pieces were written about her case.

If he seriously thinks the subject of any article has any say about what's written about them, then he's ever dafter than I'd thought. The reporter (and we know here how biased they can be) doesn't even write the headline!

Anyway, no more wasting a sunny afternoon on this rubbish.

He seems to think we have called Lisa Keogh 'the vagina lady', this seems most unlikely to me.

I doubt it, it sounds like sneery TRA speak to me. "The wizard lady" is what they dismissively call JKR.

Think that screenshot is from the court report from a few posts prior.

What screenshot? Did you not notice that that post was deleted a couple of days ago?

Oh, sorry, how could you notice, what with you being new here.

Silly me.