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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julie Bindel on Triggernometry, 02.02.22. 7pm

36 replies

ScreamingMeMe · 02/02/2022 18:53

OP posts:
SantaClawsServiette · 02/02/2022 18:54

Have you watched it? Is it any good?

ScreamingMeMe · 02/02/2022 18:55

It hasn't started yetSmile

OP posts:
SantaClawsServiette · 02/02/2022 18:56

Ah, sorry! Duh!

I can't quite picture in my mind's eye how that might go.

ScreamingMeMe · 02/02/2022 18:57

@SantaClawsServiette

Ah, sorry! Duh!

I can't quite picture in my mind's eye how that might go.

It'll be an interesting one for sure!
OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 02/02/2022 19:07

It will be great - it's Julie but also the Trig boys can be a bit daft (they are both comedians) but they ask good questions and let the interviewee respond. They do engage with the answers and generally explore whatever it is they are discussing.

The final question is usually something like - what should we be talking about - and the answer to that question is usually pretty insightful.

WarriorN · 02/02/2022 19:08

Ooh look forward to this!

nauticant · 02/02/2022 19:15

Enjoying this. The live comments in the sidebar are a bit of a sewer though.

ScreamingMeMe · 02/02/2022 19:19

@nauticant

Enjoying this. The live comments in the sidebar are a bit of a sewer though.
They are indeed. I think I'll ignore them from now on.
OP posts:
SantaClawsServiette · 02/02/2022 19:25

It's interesting she says she sees male violence is the only thing that unites women. I'm not sure I agree with that.

nauticant · 02/02/2022 19:27

The irony they'd never get ScreamingMeMe is that the two male interviewers and Bindel have many points of disagreement but will listen to each other with a degree of respect.

They don't even get the point of the Triggernometry channel.

WarriorN · 02/02/2022 19:32

Fire fighter uniform - it harder to move in something that doesn't fit effectively so it disadvantages them

ScreamingMeMe · 02/02/2022 19:33

@nauticant

The irony they'd never get ScreamingMeMe is that the two male interviewers and Bindel have many points of disagreement but will listen to each other with a degree of respect.

They don't even get the point of the Triggernometry channel.

Yep!
OP posts:
nauticant · 02/02/2022 19:39

Another thing, which I see everywhere these days, is that when they see someone with a set of views about all kinds of things, then if there's one view they find objectionable it all becomes about that, and then the shutters go down and it turns ad hominem (or is it ad feminam?).

SantaClawsServiette · 02/02/2022 19:49

@WarriorN

Fire fighter uniform - it harder to move in something that doesn't fit effectively so it disadvantages them
I felt a bit like JB didn't quite answer the question they were really asking, maybe because the uniform wasn't the best example.

He had connected it to other discussions they've had about things like race etc and I think what he was trying to ask is, are all disparities, in this case between men and women, best understood as sexism. Or even all disadvantages caused by sexism. Which is something that's a very live disagreement with people who talk about CRT for example, either supportive or not. So you can get someone like Reed who might say, you can have a disparity, but it isn't always caused by racism as such, or if you choose to call it that then you just have to be aware that what you are saying is that racism just means a disparity but that says nothing useful about the cause of the disparity.

WarriorN · 02/02/2022 20:03

As she said, she's not as concerned so probably was a little blind sided.

Have they had Caroline on yet?

WarriorN · 02/02/2022 20:12

It is sexist as women have a different body shape due to their sex and need the uniform to keep safe. Not fitting it properly is not taking that into account.

It's not deliberately done, but ignorance can be as harmful.

I suppose another word is exclusionary, based on sex.

Can be scaled to medicine and car design, where they just haven't bothered and it endangers lives.

Compare with access for wheel chair users - just not thought about and it excludes them. It's ableist as the default is able bodied.

Women make more than half the population so it's not like excluding a minority group. Yes they're right that not many women are fire fighters and so in that context women are the minority. But it's shoddy and potentially actively endangering them.

What's key about the book is that it's bliddy everywhere, for everything and added up together, as a whole, it's sexism. Especially given women are the slight majority.

SantaClawsServiette · 02/02/2022 20:56

@WarriorN

It is sexist as women have a different body shape due to their sex and need the uniform to keep safe. Not fitting it properly is not taking that into account.

It's not deliberately done, but ignorance can be as harmful.

I suppose another word is exclusionary, based on sex.

Can be scaled to medicine and car design, where they just haven't bothered and it endangers lives.

Compare with access for wheel chair users - just not thought about and it excludes them. It's ableist as the default is able bodied.

Women make more than half the population so it's not like excluding a minority group. Yes they're right that not many women are fire fighters and so in that context women are the minority. But it's shoddy and potentially actively endangering them.

What's key about the book is that it's bliddy everywhere, for everything and added up together, as a whole, it's sexism. Especially given women are the slight majority.

I think what they are getting at though is that disparities, or in some cases even exclusion, does not necessarily come out of sexism per se. It can represent something quite different, it can be a correlation where there is some other element that's the real issue, etc.

JB seemd to be suggesting at one point that the lack of female firefighters was down to sexism, for example, but that's only partly true - it also relates to the fact that it requires a lot of upper body strength and that women are less likely to have that, even just fact that they are on average smaller is a factor. So looking at that, it's a disparity, many people would not call it sexism.

In terms of the wider way of talking about disparities, you do get people like Kendi who when discussing race issues maintains pretty absolutely that any disparity is in fact racism. Which is opposed by others.

So it seemed to me that what they were asking JB was to say something about that - whether all disparities are sexism.

It was a good interview though. I enjoy listening to her in person more than reading her.

Lottapianos · 02/02/2022 21:03

'I enjoy listening to her in person more than reading her'

Same here. She's such an engaging and interesting speaker, and is a real mix of passionate and relaxed

Have been hoping she would appear on Triggernometry for ages. Saving this for a treat for tomorrow! Agree that KK and FF can be daft to put it mildly but they do shut up and listen, and if anyone can open their minds to feminism, it's JB

Torunette · 03/02/2022 09:50

I have just watched Julie on Trig.

I thought she was a wonderful presence on screen, and her voice is lovely to listen to. She manages to explain horrific and difficult situations with a wise and considered tone; it's a notable quality, considering pretty much no one else seems to be able to do it these days.

Yep, I'm fangirling. Grin I am now a Bindel fangirl.

FFSBringbackLangCleg · 03/02/2022 10:20

@Lottapianos

'I enjoy listening to her in person more than reading her'

Same here. She's such an engaging and interesting speaker, and is a real mix of passionate and relaxed

Have been hoping she would appear on Triggernometry for ages. Saving this for a treat for tomorrow! Agree that KK and FF can be daft to put it mildly but they do shut up and listen, and if anyone can open their minds to feminism, it's JB

Oh come now, fair do’s.

It was Posie who did that.

Lottapianos · 03/02/2022 10:47

'It was Posie who did that'

I watched both of her episodes, and she was great. She definitely opened their eyes to the impact of self ID on women, and the importance of biological sex, but I think they're both still very cynical about feminism. Haven't watched JB yet

JoodyBlue · 03/02/2022 11:46

The JB interview is great. Triggernometry are doing some essential work in these podcasts.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 03/02/2022 12:12

i really enjoyed it. I suspect JB may be quite a difficult person to know, but my goodness I'm glad she's in the world doing the work she does to make things better for women and girls.

when I decided Amnesty could no longer be trusted, the Centre for Women's Justice were a very good swap in for my money. I can trust them not to use my money to act against women. It's very easy to set up a regular payment through their home page.

I noticed when Julie was contrasting the treatment of a man who had murdered his partner with that of Sally Challon, one of the chaps said 'I don't regard that as a feminist issue, it's injustice'.

completely missing the fact that what happened to Sally Challon happened entirely because she is a woman. So yes, it's injustice, but entirely driven by sex

I dunno how much of it is them missing the point and how much is them trying to draw out their guests to be fair. they don't seem stupid

WarriorN · 03/02/2022 12:14

Yes I see your point Santa

I've watched the end of the interview; really excellent watch.

That should be required watching on every gender studies course everywhere

JoodyBlue · 03/02/2022 12:15

Posie btw doesn't use the term feminism because she says the new feminism doesn't support women. JB makes the same argument but holds to the term of feminism as something that centres womens rights against violence. They make the same points, although from different platforms.

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