NI Civil Service removed 'mother' and 'woman' from maternity policy at Stonewall's behest

[SexNotGenderNI]

Morning everyone - we had an FOI in to the NI Civil Service after they internally released maternity and paternity policies in which 'mother' didn't appear once, but 'father' appeared 10 times. They've responded, with Stonewall's 'recommendations' to remove 'mother' and 'woman' (remember when Nancy Kelley said on Woman's Hour they didn't want to do that?) - you can read it at www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/819001/response/1961120/

There are a load of documents there, so we screenshotted some salient parts and posted on our Twitter account: threadreaderapp.com/thread/1488815501094567936?refresh=1643809904

If you work in the NICS and want to get in touch, we're sending stuff to journalists at the minute. So angry.

Ffs. At least no one at Stonewall did Latin so maternity (from 'mater' meaning mother) was allowed to remain. Wonder how long before it becomes purely 'parental leave.'

This is bloody ridiculous.

We should be insisting they remove man and father too because it's funny how male, man, father, he etc is ok. Just like men's toilets stay men's toilets and it's women who lose our single sex facilities.

We need to make this something that pisses men off. I'd love to think our voices are enough but I'm not delusional. We don't matter. We need to use men's loos, join men's clubs and campaign for the removal of the words man and father and see how bloody quickly this shit ends.

🤬

So is anyone still willing to argue that this is not an anti woman movement?

Would anyone still like to say that this is not driven by the pure hatred of women?

Would anyone like to counter that they will not rest until they absolutely erase women from society while men and men’s feelings are prioritized above the safety of women?

I will wait, because I would love to hear the counter arguments!

Thanks for doing those FOIs and following up.

So if they remove all sex based language, how do they plan to design policies/allocate resources? If some people are entitled to say 4 weeks paid leave when they become pregnant while others are entitled to 3 months paid leave? Some people are entitled to attend regular appointments during the pre birth window, others are not? How can we work out which one is which?

Ffs. Never stops to astound me... where are the grownups? why are they not laughing stonewall out of the room?
Is it as simple as misogyny? So men go along because it benefits men and women go along because they want to please the men?

If this is it, then we are going to face this in some form or another every 100 years.

@picklemewalnuts

So if they remove all sex based language, how do they plan to design policies/allocate resources? If some people are entitled to say 4 weeks paid leave when they become pregnant while others are entitled to 3 months paid leave? Some people are entitled to attend regular appointments during the pre birth window, others are not? How can we work out which one is which?

Mystery! Beats me. I've had 3 kids, no idea why I was the one birthing them. Each time I thought next one may be on Dh's side - but it never happened that way.

Thanks for doing this.

Having read the extract from the Paternity Policy (which still uses the word 'father') it struck me - how can 'father' (the biological type) be defined without using the word 'father'? It's easy to replace 'mother' with 'person who is pregnant', but what about 'expectant father'?

Something like: 'person who is expecting the birth of a baby which was conceived with the spermatozoa of said person'?

Does anyone know if Stonewall has ever suggested an alternative word/phrase to use in place of 'father'?

Wait.. so you mean I can take this baby out of me and tell my husband he has to birth it in a few weeks? Why did no one tell me that all I had to do was opt out of this pregnancy and get my husband to do it. It’s so simple ladies..if we just opt out of all the bad parts and painful parts then our lives would be so much easier. Lady brains.. right?!

@yetanotherusernameAgain

I have never seen or heard of an alternative but I could be wrong.

I’ve never heard sperm producer. Maybe they did say prostate havers when talking about prostate exams in health documents, but I don’t think stonewall has officially asked anyone to remove man or father.

It’s only ever women that need to be erased.

It seems to me that a huge part of the TRA is driven by jealousy of women, hence the need to erase and eradicate the vocabulary and tk act like women are obsolete.

It represents the most mysogynistic and hateful aspects of the men’s rights movement.. which is in essence and anti woman movement.

Also, how come Stonewall haven't suggested an alternative word/phrase for 'maternity' (or 'paternity')? Is it just the words 'mother', 'she' and 'her' that Stonewall doesn't like?

Have thought same thing re maternity - only a matter of time, no doubt! See also GYNecology...

excellent work sexandgenderNI

sorry sexnotgenderNI

Is anyone going to tell Caroline?:

12:54CarolineNokesWebchat

IcakethereforeIam

Would you have been happy calling the Queenmother the Queenbirthgiver? If not why should it be applied to any other menstruator (including, but not limited to, former and potential menstruators), or, for the sake of brevity, woman?

No - of course not. Nobody is going to stop me calling women women and mothers mothers.

Thanks for all the support! We're part of a private network of women and men in NI horrified by gender woo and how much our public bodies have been captured. Someone in our local gov sub group sent this through in December and we have regular FOIs going in to NI bodies. Do please get in touch on Twitter or Facebook if you're in NI and feeling all alone - there are so many of us working together! In NHS, education, civil service, LGB groups, family groups - as you well know, this attack on clear language and observable reality harms everyone. And everyone knows everyone in NI so it's especially hard to speak up! (Especially if you have kids.) Our account exists to get concerns and testimonials out there - we've already been branded a hate group by politicians for sharing photos of W = AHF stickers. :/

I'm just surprised they replied.

They most likely took on all these changes the same way they replied to the FOI request: not realising it had any meaning or consequence at all.

Who is running this show without any consideration or responsibility?

It says "you may be entitled to paternity leave and pay if you are an expectant father."
Words have been mangled so much I don't know what this means. Are they referring to pregnant trans men (in which case, why remove 'woman' from the other section) or simply the biological father (male)?

Good point @Hestyo.

If the reason for removing the words 'mother', 'she' and 'her' is to be inclusive of pregnant transmen who reject those words and want to be called 'father', then the term 'expectant father' is overdue for a redefinition. Otherwise it could mean 'person who is pregnant' or 'person whose spermatozoa were used in the conception'.

Stonewall have dropped the ball on that one.

Well done for your work on this, OP.

The situation does seem especially difficult in N Ireland and Ireland. I know quite a few Irish women and get a general sense of great tension right now.

Does this mean that the administrative body in NI has taken it upon itself to make law about women without this going through the democratically elected Northern Ireland Assembly.

They done it in Scotland as well.

Removed that awful word mother

This is the organisation at the centre of government, organisations, businesses and terrifyingly, education. Their open, anti women misogyny literally has no boundaries, yet we're expected to believe Nancy Kelley when she denies they do this.

Well done SexNotGenderNI for revealing what they've all tried to keep hidden.

@highame No, these aren't laws, they are internal policies for employees who work for NI Civil Service.