What I think about 'be kind'

[Iknowitisheresomewhere]

This is inspired by the webchat yesterday with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes where 'be kind' was used.

I don't think 'be kind' works well when you are talking about groups of people. Being kind requires knowledge of what another person wants or needs, and also has connotations of 'helpful' 'doing a favour' or 'allowing someone something to which they are not absolutely entitled'. It works best on a one-to-one level.

For example, it might be 'kind' in one situation to speak loudly as the person you are talking to can't hear very well. In another situation it would be kinder to speak quietly because someone is very sensitive to noise.

You could not therefore say 'it is kind to speak louder' because sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.

Therefore a simple 'be kind' doesn't work without knowing who is being asked to be kind to who.

It doesn't work in a conflict of rights situation because being kind to one person is not being kind to another. It also requires clear acknowledgement of what behaviour is 'kind' (going above and beyond what is necessary) and what is simply 'right' (giving someone what they are entitled to).

If someone points out that a Muslim women would not want to share a changing room with a transwoman, 'be kind' gets us precisely nowhere, because being kind to one is not being kind to the other.

'Being kind' implies that there is also a time and a place where not being kind is OK. 'It would be kind of you to share those sweets with your brother' implies that there are other times when sharing would not be required.

What we are generally discussing is a situation where (generally women) are bing told to 'be kind' to transwomen but the recipient of the kindness feels that it is their right, not a favour.

I really don't know why any politician would think it is a solution to a genuine societal problem. Deaf people wouldn't want politicians to say 'please, television companies, be kind to deaf people and subtitle your programs'. Noone wants to rely on kindness.

Let's be kind to Boris - he was just relaxing after a hard day's work.
Let's be kind to Putin - he's just sending his soldiers on holiday.
Let's be kind about Jimmy Savile - he really liked children.

Is that how this works? It's so bloody insulting.

When they say #BeKind

I hear an invitation to#SelfHarm and #HarmAllWomen

They obviously don’t do much reading of mumsnet and the feminism board in particular if they didn’t know how “be kind” and “we need to be kinder” was going to be received.

Which is odd, you’d think it’d be an ideal place to frequent in their line of work, considering they want more women involved in politics.

I think they underestimate the power of this forum. Very silly.

Really good piece by Kathleen Stock here
kathleenstock.com/the-pity-party-on-the-left-2/

"When companies or individuals ostentatiously promote the value of kindness like this, they aren’t interested in helping people navigate the complex work of how to manifest kindness in everyday interactions. What they mostly mean is: feel kindly towards others. Demonstrating kindness essentially involves definite action. In contrast, kindliness seems to involve only emitting a vague feeling of warmth towards other humans. Yet promoting something so vague and underspecified as a political value carries with it certain risks. In practice, kindly feelings can quickly transmute into the dangerously sentimental emotion of pity, or else into a passivity which daren’t risk saying or thinking anything critical at all."

#BeKind’s alterego is #SHUTUP!

Every time.

Isn't "Be kind" just code for "Don't be a transphobe"?

I think "go fuck yourself". I'm disappointed with myself that I had to go through menopause to realise this. It's when I also discovered that the overwhelming majority of so-called transwomen retain their genitalia when they transition.
Third space /open sports category is "kind". I'll support that. I'll also support so-called transmen being in women only spaces and sports (testosterone testing permitting). Because that keeps them safe from predatory men and allows them to compete in the appropriate sporting class.
Get to fuck with the rest of it.

Yes, I think pretty much the same. Earlier today I was involved in a discussion about the new cycling rules in the Highway Code and two people there just said that we all needed to be kind and then there'd be no accidents and no need for rules.

It's just a way of wriggling out of complex situations which we all know exist and will always exist. It's the phrase of cowards, idiots and scoundrels.

Being kind is NOT permitting anyone to share changing rooms and spaces with my sister - partially blind and on a journey with Alzheimers (so some days better than others - generally language and recognising things visually). No bloody thank you.

I explained this to John Lewis and they told me to go away.

@oldwhyno

Isn't "Be kind" just code for "Don't be a transphobe"?

Define transphobe

Believing that men cannot become actual women is not transphobic it’s reality!

I still can’t believe they came on MN and thought that saying beeeee kind would be a winning move

@Pluvia

Yes, I think pretty much the same. Earlier today I was involved in a discussion about the new cycling rules in the Highway Code and two people there just said that we all needed to be kind and then there'd be no accidents and no need for rules.

It's just a way of wriggling out of complex situations which we all know exist and will always exist. It's the phrase of cowards, idiots and scoundrels.

It's the phrase plastered in large letters on the side of a GP surgery near me!! Makes me want to go in and tell them to f o every time I go past it.

I won't, because I am generally kind (amongst other reasons), but I don't need them telling me to be.

I feel very sad when someone tells me to be kind - it hurts my feelings.
So the kindest thing to do is not say it.

@Theeyeballsinthesky sorry, I should have put "transphobe" with the speech marks. The way it's generally used today is not my word or definition, and I agree with you.

@Pluvia

Yes, I think pretty much the same. Earlier today I was involved in a discussion about the new cycling rules in the Highway Code and two people there just said that we all needed to be kind and then there'd be no accidents and no need for rules.

It's just a way of wriggling out of complex situations which we all know exist and will always exist. It's the phrase of cowards, idiots and scoundrels.

Ffs. Road users don't need to be 'kind' - they need to be considerate and have a modicum of patience. But that has to be in the context of a framework of rules and guidance, so that other road users can anticipate what others may do.

Be kind means "just give the person creating drama what they want so I don't have to get involved and potentially look like the bad guy". Its what crappy parents and grandparents say to children when the spoilt kid shouts and cries because the long suffering one won't give them their toy or do what they want...

Yep be kind means shut the f##k up & do as I say. Especially you older women, you have no use any more except as supporting others.

Be Kind = Do What The Other Person Wants

The response needs to be "Why?".

Why is this being required of me/of women/of vulnerable people?

I tell my DC that "Be Kind" is a virtue-signalling, thought-terminating cliche because it lacks definition, proportion and limits. "Be Kind" is an instruction to be a doormat to whoever wails most piteously.

I'm trying to teach my DC to "Be Considerate" instead - to always be aware that there are other people in the world who have needs and feelings too, but that you also have needs and feelings.

Be kind means nothing more than women know your place and stfu.

On her way to work one morning
Down the path along side the lake
A tender hearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake
His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew
"Oh well," she cried, "I'll take you in and I'll take care of you"
"Take me in oh tender woman (come on in)
Take me in, for heaven's sake (come on in)
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in tender woman," sighed the snake

She wrapped him up all cozy in a curvature of silk
And then laid him by the fireside with some honey and some milk
Now she hurried home from work that night as soon as she arrived
She found that pretty snake she'd taking in had been revived
"Take me in, oh tender woman (come on in)
Take me in, for heaven's sake (come on in)
Take me in tender woman," sighed the snake

Now she clutched him to her bosom, "You're so beautiful," she cried
"But if I hadn't brought you in by now you might have died"
Now she stroked his pretty skin again and then kissed and held him tight
But instead of saying thanks, that snake gave her a vicious bite (oh...)
"Take me in, oh tender woman (come on in)
Take me in, for heaven's sake (come on in)
Take me in tender woman," sighed the snake

"I saved you," cried that woman
"And you've bit me even, why?
And you know your bite is poisonous and now I'm gonna die"
"Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin
"You knew damn well I was a snake before you brought me in…

Now that’s where ‘be kind’ gets ya.

Yes, I agree with Kathleen Stock. I think 'be kind' is an instruction to focus on your emotions and leave critical analysis to others (men).

oldwhyno: 'It's the phrase plastered in large letters on the side of a GP surgery near me!! Makes me want to go in and tell them to f o every time I go past it.

I won't, because I am generally kind (amongst other reasons), but I don't need them telling me to be.'

I remember years ago when hospitals started putting up posters saying, "Don't abuse our staff!". I never had & never will, but it suddenly made me want to. I didn't want to be told what to do when I was doing things right already, & I felt I was being seen as someone I'm not.

I am so over this modern sappy kindliness BS. To me, there are so many things wrong with it, e.g.

It ignores what hard work & how time-consuming it is to be kind to people in practical ways: listening to someone's troubles or getting their shopping for them, say, or entering into a long-term commitment to help them. Instead 'be kind' seems to equate to smiling at a stranger in the street (freaky & useless) or virtue-signalling online for the approval of one's peers - things which cost nothing & do nothing to actually help anyone.

Its alternative use seems to be as a demand which only goes one way. I've only ever seen 'be kind' used proactively by people taking an anti-woman stance, to try to elicite silence or obedience from women. 'Be kind' = 'wheesht', basically, with added shaming. If someone tells you to be kind & you say no, you're seen to be confirming that you're an unpleasant person. Actually, you're confirming nothing of the sort because the original 'be kind' is a code, a lie, an attempt to paint you into a corner.

As for 'If we're all kind to each other, nothing bad will happen,' it always makes me think of Candice Marie in 'Nuts in May', who says much the same thing & it's taken as evidence of her soppy & brainless character. How times have changed. I've often read members of the younger generation coming out with similar BS & basing political demands on it, e.g. believing that if we close all prisons violent crime will disappear; or that everyone's safe if men & women share blocks of semi-cubicled toilets because 'soon technology will deal with the threat of sexual assault there'. Yeees, it's not really going to work like that, is it, children?

@KittenKong

KTF

'#BeKind’s alterego is #SHUTUP!'

Absolutely. It's just the latest version of 'calm down, dear'

That Kathleen Stock quote is great