What I think about 'be kind'

[Iknowitisheresomewhere]

This is inspired by the webchat yesterday with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes where 'be kind' was used.

I don't think 'be kind' works well when you are talking about groups of people. Being kind requires knowledge of what another person wants or needs, and also has connotations of 'helpful' 'doing a favour' or 'allowing someone something to which they are not absolutely entitled'. It works best on a one-to-one level.

For example, it might be 'kind' in one situation to speak loudly as the person you are talking to can't hear very well. In another situation it would be kinder to speak quietly because someone is very sensitive to noise.

You could not therefore say 'it is kind to speak louder' because sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.

Therefore a simple 'be kind' doesn't work without knowing who is being asked to be kind to who.

It doesn't work in a conflict of rights situation because being kind to one person is not being kind to another. It also requires clear acknowledgement of what behaviour is 'kind' (going above and beyond what is necessary) and what is simply 'right' (giving someone what they are entitled to).

If someone points out that a Muslim women would not want to share a changing room with a transwoman, 'be kind' gets us precisely nowhere, because being kind to one is not being kind to the other.

'Being kind' implies that there is also a time and a place where not being kind is OK. 'It would be kind of you to share those sweets with your brother' implies that there are other times when sharing would not be required.

What we are generally discussing is a situation where (generally women) are bing told to 'be kind' to transwomen but the recipient of the kindness feels that it is their right, not a favour.

I really don't know why any politician would think it is a solution to a genuine societal problem. Deaf people wouldn't want politicians to say 'please, television companies, be kind to deaf people and subtitle your programs'. Noone wants to rely on kindness.

@KittenKong - love that song

For anyone who doesn't know @KittenKong 's reference

DD2 was taught "be kind" even if an adult was making her uncomfortable by her primary school

We thought that postively dangerous and thought a more nuance message was needed- but the school thought as it wasn't meant like that but be kind to people with disablities it was fine.

Everywhere else I've seen it it usually means shut up we don't care.

Not mine, copied from another thread where the poster said it was OK to be shared (if anyone remembers the artist please let me know so I can credit)

It is my screensaver

#BeKind is telling someone that you already think they aren't being nice, why else would they need a warning?
When its directed to a victim or someone who is at risk and needs help, its adding insult to injury.
From a politician it shows they lack any awareness of how female socialisation works.

SC and CN were incredibly disingenuous when they said they were only using this refer to having civil and respectful discourse. Because when we want people to have respectful dialogue, we use the phrase respectful dialogue. We ALL know this is not what ' be kind' means.

Furthermore it feeds into a sexist narrative that women are not allowed to be angry in the face of injustice and harms. That we must always 'be nice.'

Feminist 'women are being sexually assaulted' CN and SC ' Be kind when talking about that!'
Feminist: 'Women are being threatened and stigmatised when they talk about basic safeguarding for women and girls' CN and SC ' Remember to be kind when talking about that!'

See how this makes no sense! Telling women to be kind seeks a social method to limit women's boundaries by making them feel shame for trying to assert boundaries.

We need to tell young women its ok not to be kind to those who are seeking to hurt you or limit your boundaries.

The more I think about yesterday’s web chat, the more I can’t actually believe they had the gall to patronise the women raising questions with the “be kind” mantra. As if the women here had never been told that before! That they brazenly thought maybe it would mean something more coming from them and we’d all go “yeah. Alright then”.

It just showed total ignorance.

Its worse than ignorance, its contempt. No one at this late stage can pretend that they don't know the effect this is having on women. If they are in favour of it, they need to come out and say so instead of pretending to listen or engage with us.

I completely agree.

As a rape and sexual abuse survivor I am expected to 'be kind' and centre any males who want to come to the women's rape crisis recovery groups.

It's unthinkable that these males could be kind in return and consider how traumatic their presence is for women.

It's actually quite frightening that representatives of both of the main political parties at Westminster hold this view. Just more confirmation that I am politically homeless.

And also to all those who have said on other threads that they will vote Conservative because of the other parties' views on women's rights I think you may get a very rude awakening..

@Dinosauria

Not mine, copied from another thread where the poster said it was OK to be shared (if anyone remembers the artist please let me know so I can credit)

It is my screensaver

Credit to Kelly White, iirc.

A young woman in the gym today had a 'be kind' t on.

I borrowed that wonderful Peter Ustinov phrase 'I have made other arrangements', she was puzzled

'Furthermore it feeds into a sexist narrative that women are not allowed to be angry in the face of injustice and harms. That we must always 'be nice.''

Well said.

Stella Creasy is especially ridiculous. She is very well aware of the impact of a woman's biological reality on her life, as she never stops reminding us. And yet according to her, TWAW and 'be kind'. She's talking out of both sides of her mouth and it's pretty disgraceful

@Pluvia

Yes, I think pretty much the same. Earlier today I was involved in a discussion about the new cycling rules in the Highway Code and two people there just said that we all needed to be kind and then there'd be no accidents and no need for rules.

It's just a way of wriggling out of complex situations which we all know exist and will always exist. It's the phrase of cowards, idiots and scoundrels.

I love this!

@IamSarah

I completely agree.

As a rape and sexual abuse survivor I am expected to 'be kind' and centre any males who want to come to the women's rape crisis recovery groups.

It's unthinkable that these males could be kind in return and consider how traumatic their presence is for women.

And exactly this!

What is the reply 'In a world where we can be anything be...'

Its worse than ignorance, its contempt. No one at this late stage can pretend that they don't know the effect this is having on women. If they are in favour of it, they need to come out and say so instead of pretending to listen or engage with us.

The faux innocent "but I don't understand what rights women think are being taken away" from Stella was awful. And then people told her and she didn't acknowledge it. I suggested, to Stella, that she sit down with women's groups to hear about it and Caroline snapped that they'd already done that in their inquiry, so I guess she thinks no need to listen to anyone on their own terms

Batman?

@oldwhyno

Isn't "Be kind" just code for "Don't be a transphobe"?

Aaahhh, see I thought it was code for "You have an opinion I can't cope with therefore you should STFU as otherwise you are committing literal violence on me".

Happy to be corrected though? ...

Some would also think it's code for "Please don't be truthful as you may hurt my feelz".

It's code for "your feelings are not important, unlike other people's"

Well put OP. I’ve been struggling to put my feelings on Be Kind into words.

Old apologies, I see we're on the same page

It's not kind to collude in a lie.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

I’m part way through the second Benjamin Boyce interview with Helen Joyce and they are discussing how gender ideology requires a split from reality to actually work. So yeah, reality is ‘transphobic’.