Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

[Bosky]

Anyone got any questions for Stella and Caroline?

Go to:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/4468388-Webchat-about-women-mums-in-politics-with-Stella-Creasy-and-Caroline-Nokes-1st-February

if I was going to a meeting, to discuss important issues, I would have arranged childcare so that I could give my full attention to the subject.

That was my thought too. My take on the baby comment was that she wasn't taking this seriously at all, as though she was just popping on to mumsnet for a chat as a regular forum user.

But @CosmosLily what useful conversation can be had around women in politics, if it in fact means men in politics too? There are issues which pertain only to women, and pretending there are not is a massive barrier to constructive conversation.

I just don't get it, it looks like a vendetta and like you wont allow any talks about feminism topics until everyone agrees about this one thing, it's just not progressive.

How can you discuss feminist topics, which are about women, if you can't define what a woman is or if your definition of 'women' includes men?

part of me thinks that SC team just hadn't done their research about MN, and thought we would appreciate SC being presented as just another 'mummy' like us.
But then, she has been on MN before, so how could that be so?

Something I don't understand - The webchat was an important topic, so as feminists why wouldn't you forgoe the incessant and repetitive questions that you knew would lead nowhere, in favour of actually speaking about the topic at hand?

You do know you could have posted a question? I'm sure they would have taken it to bypass some of the more difficult ones. You can't make other people, who care, talk about what you want to if you're not even participating.

But @CosmosLily what useful conversation can be had around women in politics, if it in fact means men in politics too? There are issues which pertain only to women, and pretending there are not is a massive barrier to constructive conversation.

Exactly.

And it really wasn't a "minority group of posters" any more than any other webchat, generally the whole site doesn't participate in them questions were being posted there soon after it was announced. Anyone had the opportunity to ask one. The majority of questioners felt it was imperative to define terms before discussing "women in politics".

I didn't post a question because I didn't know it was happening, I only read it later on. I understand what you're all saying but it is stalling the conversation each and every time. There was plenty of insight and interesting/useful conversation to be had for many people, but that didnt particularly happen because of this one question repeated again and again that I don't believe had a place here. You can disagree on a specific thing and still have the conversation, rather than halting it entirely until everyone agrees, but conversations are just not being allowed to be had, in this context and I find that a pity.

@CosmosLily

Something I don't understand - The webchat was an important topic, so as feminists why wouldn't you forgoe the incessant and repetitive questions that you knew would lead nowhere, in favour of actually speaking about the topic at hand? What was the point? Soon Mumsnet won't host these webchats anymore if they're all taken over by the exact same topic, which is literally in the rules to avoid doing as it becomes pointless. I just really don't see the point in this context. By all means continue asking those questions elsewhere but it pretty much caused the webchat to be mostly useless whereas it was an important topic to do with feminism that could've given insight to a lot of people, but now it's just a graveyard of the same questions over and over. I just don't get it, it looks like a vendetta and like you wont allow any talks about feminism topics until everyone agrees about this one thing, it's just not progressive.

This is exactly what I did. The questions about gender identity that I would have wanted to have asked had already been put by other users, so I asked a question about barriers to entry into politics and about the scheme that Creasy was promoting. It was answered.

In response to your OP, don't feel scared to complain about something you deem worthy, just don't be a dick about it and you won't be considered a Karen

I don't think this is particularly feminist either, Cosmos Lily, but it was something you said on a different thread.

Just saying.

But you and others could have and did post questions and these were also addressed were they not?

Simply from what I've seen here on Mumsnet in regard to conversations on these topics, both off and on the FWR board, conversations are "taken over" by the exact same topic time and time again and puts people who arent yet really involved in feminism off the whole thing. It just makes it look like there is only one topic and one topic only and that puts off people, like me, from getting involved. Which is a pity.

You think questions about women didn't have a place in a convo about women!?

That makes literally no sense.

I didn't post a question because I didn't know it was happening, I only read it later on.

Yes, you need to be on the webchat to have any influence on how it goes. It's not the fault of women with important questions that you missed it and don't agree with how it went.

@YetAnotherSpartacus Did you seriously just search me, take a comment out of context from friend entirely different thread and stick it on this thread? 😂 Good god. If you actually read my posts instead of copying and pasting posts from other conversations, you might see the whole story.

The main reason I wouldn't go into politics is because of the abuse women in politics get, no matter what their viewpoint. This question was asked during the webchat but the answer was heavily couched in 'be kind' and 'raising the level of the debate' language because politicians across the parties are condoning abusive behaviour if the woman in question has the 'wrong' opinions - there was no indications during that webchat that there is any concrete moves to support women who have views which aren't Stonewall approved. The webchat was asking what barriers women face - that is a barrier which is putting women off going into politics but as long as politicians are steeped in the whole 'no debate' agenda of gender ideology, there's clearly no point in engaging. We can have a lovely chat about improving Crèche services for standing MP's until the cows come home but it's not encouraging women into politics, especially those with the 'wrong' views.

The use of the word 'progressive' in this context makes me shudder - it's very 1984.

That's a 'women, be nice and think of others before yourself' appeal isn't it?

Why are people so averse to the idea of female politicians claiming to care about women in politics being asked to justify their contradictory position and define their terms?

Eresh - Yes, you're entirely right about that. I'm simply saying that as an "outsider/lurker" on these boards, I find it a pity that a useful conversation couldn't be had because of the repetitive questions that MN themselves asked not to be asked over and over and that what could've been a constructive conversation was kind of overrun, that's all. I'll keep an eye out for the next one and will indeed prep questions if I feel I can bring anything to the conversation.

@CosmosLily

I didn't post a question because I didn't know it was happening, I only read it later on. I understand what you're all saying but it is stalling the conversation each and every time. There was plenty of insight and interesting/useful conversation to be had for many people, but that didnt particularly happen because of this one question repeated again and again that I don't believe had a place here. You can disagree on a specific thing and still have the conversation, rather than halting it entirely until everyone agrees, but conversations are just not being allowed to be had, in this context and I find that a pity.

It was the perfect question in this place.

Until they bit the bullet and were honest about what a woman is, how can we respect anything else that came out of their mouths?

They were talking bullshit and both deserved the bollocking they got.
They were patronising and vastly underestimated us.

Cosmos - I did search you and I did read both your posts on the previous thread.

I always get curious when posters with names I don't recognise because I've not seen them in any discussions about feminism before come into FWR and lecture women about feminism, how we are 'doing it wrong' and how we should 'do it right'.

I'm just checking their credentials, that's all :)

The main reason I wouldn't go into politics is because of the abuse women in politics get, no matter what their viewpoint. This question was asked during the webchat but the answer was heavily couched in 'be kind' and 'raising the level of the debate' language because politicians across the parties are condoning abusive behaviour if the woman in question has the 'wrong' opinions - there was no indications during that webchat that there is any concrete moves to support women who have views which aren't Stonewall approved.

It was, I also asked a general question about societal misogyny based on JK Rowling's quote and asked what we could do about it, which they didn't answer.

I'll keep an eye out for the next one and will indeed prep questions if I feel I can bring anything to the conversation.

Great, sounds good. They are usually advertised a couple of days in advance and pinned on the main board.

@BaronessWrongCrowdRex

It’s been a while since my child has been a baby but if I was going to a meeting, to discuss important issues, I would have arranged childcare so that I could give my full attention to the subject.

The fact that these two very mediocre politicians have any say in law making makes me shudder. Least we forget that Caroline Nokes’s held a spite committee around the GRA reforms and treating those with an opposing view disgracefully. I wouldn’t trust Caroline Nokes and Stella Creasy anywhere near a wet paper bag let alone having a say over our rights. Yes OUR rights Caroline and Stella. OURS. WOMEN’S. Those pesky adult human females that do biology not feelings.

Oh I forgot. You both pretend to not know what a woman is.

Yeah me as well. Or did Stella creasy not think we were not that important enough to give us full attention

They were trying to sell us something

On Twitter it seems like Stella creasy is still smarting about the webchat

Does she not get that ordinary people don’t believe that anyone can form themselves into woman and they are worried about their children

I think it’s called luxury belief

Wait what - My interpretation of the first "be kind" comment was referring to the thread itself, not the whole topic in general, but could definitely be wrong about that.
I do agree with your points though and dont think that some of the questions were answered in a "good enough" manner, the whole thing seemed a little pointless.

On Twitter it seems like Stella creasy is still smarting about the webchat

She's discussing it with Hadley Freeman and others. It's well worth a read and Stella isn't doing herself any favours.