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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rosie Duffield considering leaving due to abuse

44 replies

NotBadConsidering · 30/01/2022 20:53

Can’t see a thread on this:

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-60188577

OP posts:
FOJN · 30/01/2022 20:58

I wonder if the Labour Party are proud of themselves, absolute bastards. If you are not challenging this abuse you are complicit - don't fool yourselves otherwise.

Is there any legal recourse open to Rosie? They have treated her appallingly.

NutsOhHazelnuts · 30/01/2022 21:02

Yes, she has said on Twitter that Labour Party not the Leaders have not supported her at all.

twitter.com/rosieduffield1/status/1487777216385753092?s=21

I don't blame her. She has endured so much. I am so glad that she is finally spoke out about this.

NutsOhHazelnuts · 30/01/2022 21:03
  • nor the 2 leaders have supported her.
foxgoosefinch · 30/01/2022 21:03

After being a Labour voter all my life I now cannot even conceive of voting for them again. I’m politically homeless.

Camdenish · 30/01/2022 21:05

Where are you Keir?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/01/2022 21:22

Their treatment of Rosie has been utterly spineless & appalling

dropthevipers · 30/01/2022 21:25

I almost look forward to the next election when Labour come canvassing for my vote-they will be receiving both barrels instead.

SunnyDelite · 30/01/2022 21:27

Keir Starmer is the worst of the worst, he need to go and be replaced with someone who supports me and my daughters and my granddaughter over these (I don't know how to describe them without being deleted)..... :( I'm soooo angry.

adulthumanfemalemum · 30/01/2022 21:29

She's my MP and I'm just in despair at the fact that if she goes (and even if she doesn't due to in fighting in the local Labour party), we will almost certainly end up with another bloody Tory. The last one stayed in post for like, 20 years. It's been so refreshing having an MP who agrees with me on everything! 😭😭

WeeBisom · 30/01/2022 21:30

Jo Maugham has just tweeted that there should be no place for her in progressive politics (even though she says she supports trans rights) because she has spread misinformation about treatment for trans youth. Apparently the misinformation is her statement: “To cut your body parts off and then render yourself completely infertile or to make decisions that you cannot ever reverse, that is horrifying.” Children under 18 in the UK don't get trans surgery. This seems rather disingenuous because we do know that under 18s have had surgery (such as the Mermaids leader's child, who was 16), and her comment doesn't just refer to surgery but making decisions that cannot be reversed.

FOJN · 30/01/2022 21:39

WeeBisom

I'm not sure this video will last long!

51, 16 and 17 year olds have been referred for double mastectomy in Scotland.

And WPATH is vague about the appropriate age for irreversible surgery.

DontLikeCrumpets · 30/01/2022 22:31

@FOJN that video should be an OP.Very well done.

lanadelgrey · 30/01/2022 22:38

I have written to my MP, with link to Observer piece today. I suspect he is vaguely supportive of her but doesn’t have the guts to speak up. Angry

Triphazards · 30/01/2022 23:33

Maybe she should consider joining a different party.

Gumbomambo · 30/01/2022 23:57

I’m really worried about Rosie. The hate (real not imagined), the violent threats (real not imagined) are truly frightening. If anything happens to her then The fox murderer should to arrested for inciting hatred and violence towards her. Posting that shit just after her announcement came out is calculated to harm. Come on Rosie we are routing for you.

Mollyollydolly · 31/01/2022 00:02

I wish she'd crowdfund and take the fox batterer to court for libel. She'd get the money in 12 hours.

GreenUp · 31/01/2022 01:23

I think Rosie has been libelled by PN and JM on this.

If you listen to the source video that Rosie recorded with Glinner, Helen Staniland and Morty, it's quite clear that she was responding to Graham's comment about doctors in America performing surgery on non-binary people. She didn't say anything about medical treatment for kids in the UK.

Here is the video link.

The conversation about generational aspects/young people starts at 42:31

Have typed out where she responds to Graham's comments as follows:

Rosie I think it’s like any issue. It, it isn’t just actually an age.. it's not in silos like that. I don’t think it’s that straight forward. But in terms of the language and in terms of dinosaurs like me understanding younger people and and their views on. I mean what do people our age know about non-binary, non-binary choosing not to be male or female.

Rosie This is a whole new thing for all of us. Most politicians are around about my age. So we do need to talk to young people. We do need to find out what are your issues? I'm gonna ask Why are you rejecting mostly being female being a woman? Don’t we need to say where’s that coming from?

Morty Yeah

Helen Yes, yes we really do

Rosie You know Jo tried to ask that question I think on twitter and got sort of cancelled and stuff. But, but yeah so the age thing is important. You know In all things in politics we can’t just serve people our age we need to ask people much younger what’s going on.

Morty Um

Graham Yeah well one of, one of the things that that I find most frightening about, about this is that dysphoria is not um, is being actively encouraged by some of this ideology you know. That’s, that’s what I find really frightening. Um and it, it just seems that there’s a kind of idea that it won’t matter if, if a young person decides to be fluid with their gender and so on. And the fact is that it, it seems to lead to a lot of confusion and a lot of people seem to think that, that it, it needs to…..

Graham There’s doctors now doing surgeries in America for supposedly non-binary people. They’re removing their nipples. Because someone has decided that non-binary means you take your nipples off. It’s just an absolute outrage you know. But um, anyway sorry.

Rosie I, I think those decisions though guys I mean obviously making those decisions when you’re so young. Be who you wanna be, experiment you know, do whatever you wanna do but to cut your body parts off and and then render yourself completely infertile or to make decisions that you can’t ever reverse.

GrimDamnFanjo · 31/01/2022 01:51

Rosie is saying it's not her GC views at the heart of this.
It sounds like one of those crazy LCP campaigns.
I'm sure her gender critical views haven't helped though Sad

NutsOhHazelnuts · 31/01/2022 07:42

@GrimDamnFanjo

Rosie is saying it's not her GC views at the heart of this. It sounds like one of those crazy LCP campaigns. I'm sure her gender critical views haven't helped though Sad

It doesn't matter if it's her gc views, the party and its leader have allowed the abuse to go on.

I really think they allow the abuse to go on because it is convenient for them.

NecessaryScene · 31/01/2022 08:06

Apparently the misinformation is her statement: “To cut your body parts off and then render yourself completely infertile or to make decisions that you cannot ever reverse, that is horrifying.” Children under 18 in the UK don't get trans surgery.

As GreenUp points out, that was directly responding to something about America.

And it is horrifying that it happens to children there, and it would be horrifying if it happened here as PN and JM are advocating. It's bad enough that people nominally of age but not fully mature are doing it.

And who ever mentioned "under 18" specifically anyway? That whole bit was about "young people". The next bit after your quote was Helen talking about someone aged 20:

I mean we've had we've had young people on this show, haven't we? We had that poor, poor chap who'd had his testicles removed when he was around 20 and then when he was about 21, he regretted it.

So Maugham just making shit up again. This is one of the reasons I went GC so fast. It was clear only one side was doing all the disingenuous misquotes, and anyone doing that many is clearly on shaky ground.

(I don't suppose they're going to acknowledge that all their guff about "conversion therapy" is misinformation? That's something that really doesn't happen in the UK, unlike young people going down the surgery path).

fromorbit · 31/01/2022 08:16

Don't forget Rosie has been prominent in the fight to end anti-Semitism in Labour and also was critical of Corbyn. She is also an ultra Remainer. Corbynites detest her.

A big chunk of the reason JKR was villainised so quickly because the Corbyn faction already hated her because JKR thought he was useless and spoke up about it. Same pattern here.

Basically there is a Corbynite faction in the Canterbury Labour party and beyond that want to see her gone. There is a mechanism to deselect MPs which they could use. However I suspect they can't get enough votes to use it because a lot of the local party actually like Rosie because many think she is doing a decent job. So they are trying to undermine her covertly. It is part of a propaganda campaign. What they are doing is attacking her from multiple directions.

So they accuse her of being a bad local MP.
Of being Transphobic.
Of being Zionist and pro-Israel
Of being a Blairite.
{They would like to accuse her of being too pro-EU if that was an effective weapon.]

This is what Rosie is alluding too.

We totally need to write in to support Rosie. However she facing a campaign which targets her on multiple fronts. To support her effectively make it clear she is being targeted as much as being against Corbyn as for supporting women's rights.

The campaign is being co-ordinated by a local leftist Kent website Whitstable Views which has run a long series of anti Rosie articles. There are articles on the website which undermine the battle against antisemtism in Labour. It is a lexit site so obviously Rosie's support for the EU is another issue. Even though the effect of Brexit is devastating for Kent.

Obviously all this is a bigger political question which different people here are going to have different perspectives. However one thing we can agree on no matter where you are politically is the sexism issue here. Whether you disagree with Rosie politically or not we can see a bunch of sexist stuff going on. Yes she had an affair during lockdown it was wrong, but the way people harp on about is classic double standards. She was punished for it and is on the back bench.

There are tonnes of Labour MPs that were critical of Corbyn many of them men. Strangely it was the women critics who are targeted most strongly. I think we know why.

Why is Tonia not being targeted in the same obsessive way as Rosie ? They think the same on gender matters, they both have spoken out and appeared on GC platforms, Tonia even was a Corbyn and Brexit critic. It is because the campaign against Rosie has become a classic misogynistic witchhunt because she ticks boxes. Rosie had the wrong kind of sex, Rosie complained about being abused by a man, Rosie questioned male authority figures. Combined with that is the usual sexist appearance stuff I suspect. Rosie has a more feminine style, so that marks her out in a sexist mind as being "weak" and a "target", she has had to struggle to get her voice heard, but now she has found it she just won't be silent. The fact is our society particularly targets outspoken women with a feminine style because it breaks down the gender rules.

Tonia, a Welsh Rugby playing Labour woman obviously faces different sexist assumptions, but she seems tougher on the surface so these pathetic bullies don't even bother her in the same way.

The fact is Labour has women issues the left faction is and the right faction too. [The right in Labour are viciously critical of female left MPs and members.]

There are good reasons that Labour has never elected a women leader. The British left has deep issues with women, they just flow in different patterns than the right. Women on side are celebrated, step out of line and you must be destroyed. {It is part of a wider tendency on the left to find it difficult to tolerate diversity of thought.] The right is more classically sexist, but they are way more tolerant of women once they achieve a certain status and prove themselves. They will say condescending nonsense, but allow women politicians more freedom to express themselves if they share basic ideals. Look at Liz Truss ardent Remainer who is now the darling of the Tory Brexit base.

Women members in Labour should be able to have any views they want within the usual standards of the party without being harassed for them. Labour should be offering Rosie more support. So yes lets write in and support Rosie. This is way bigger than the battle about trans issues though so make sure you reflect that.

It also makes the argument to support her more effective. The fact is we need Rosie to stay in Labour she is a vital voice in there and provides support for 1000s of Labour members with GC views. I get many here have lost all faith in Labour, but we need critics within and without the party. The fact is to win this fight we need to reform every major British institution infected by genderism. That includes Labour.

This in fact what I think Rosie is doing, obviously she suffers from the attacks, but she understands how to use their unhinged nature to come out on top and gain publicity. She is playing politics, to gain a stronger position just as she did in the Labour conference, and we need that. She is turning the attacks against her into a way of strengthening herself and everything she stands for.

Thus I think we can use the campaign to support Rosie to strengthen GC forces within Labour and all importantly destigmitize the debate further UK wide. The Labour party is full of dinosaurs, lets keep it that way. Better still lets aim to put the Dinosaurs in charge.

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 31/01/2022 08:20

I really hope she takes up the offer she had to move to the conservative party. I bet there are a lot of people that agree with her stance but can't revote her in because it would risk Labour getting in and self Id being pushed through.
And yes, I know some people think the conservatives are right wing pure evil, but politics needs more centre left/centre right people and Rosie's moderate voice didn't actually get heard in her now far left party.

We need a diversity of voices in all the parties to avoid the fallout of tribal politics, which we're experiencing now.

FrancescaContini · 31/01/2022 08:22

@FOJN

WeeBisom

I'm not sure this video will last long!

51, 16 and 17 year olds have been referred for double mastectomy in Scotland.

And WPATH is vague about the appropriate age for irreversible surgery.

Thank you for linking to this. I have watched it and my jaw is on the floor.

When will the major broadcasters pick this up and expose it in a mainstream way? We’ve had the Stonewall podcast which was very clear and accessible; surely it’s time for something bigger?? Any journos reading this - Newsnight?? Please?

Totally agree with the doctors referred to as being “professional groomers”.

FrancescaContini · 31/01/2022 08:24

And yes, I am gutted for Rosie. She’s a really refreshing, honest voice. The Labour Party should feel ashamed of how she’s been treated.

highame · 31/01/2022 08:28

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4467462-Wes-streeting-interview

Anyone still thinking there's been a shift in LP attitude to women, think again. Even if the leaders did (though I doubt) have a change of heart, some of the grass roots activists are vile and want RD out