When the lawsuits come, who will be held responsible and why?

[Slythermum]

We know it's coming. So how will various people from various groups be implicated?

Teachers for example. How would they be able to say they didn't know?

@KittenKong

I was talking to a friend yesterday about celebrities (and people in power/decision makers) who had managed to get away with dreadful behaviour (whether it be negligence or conspiratorial).

JS can up and we couldn’t think of anyone who was reprimanded or convicted of anything as a result of from him being given free access to children/young women, or even being given the keys to a hospital etc. But people were voicing concerns at the time - a relative was a nurse at the time, and it was common knowledge that this man was not to be left alone at any time with patients or staff. They knew he was not a safe person around children - yet he had the keys to the hospital to come and go at will. People who raised concerns (seemed to be mostly older women) were called trouble-makers, fools, idiots, out of touch, etc.

So - decision makers, lobby groups, medical staff, parents, teachers… it’s like pass the parcel of responsibility.

So many individuals and organisations culpabul that they effectively have group immnity? Sadly I can see the same thing happening with genderism's destruction of children.

I think it’s such a shame trans ideology has attached themselves to and ultimately taken over gay rights (like a Ophiocordyceps unilateralis)

When this all goes to shit, so many gay rights charities will be left like a deflated balloon and have to start again from scratch.

There are many institutions that are supposed to be safeguarders or neutral where people have clearly been acting as activists within them, driving this ideology and targeting those who speak out, especially in relation to child transitioning and to removing safeguarding around women and girls' safe spaces and doing a demolition job on girls' attitudes to their own boundaries. It feels like scandals within the church or Scouts, the BBC and MPs in years gone by.

@rabbitwoman

It might not be so much people being held accountable.

I would like to see jk Rowling publicly beatified once this is over!! I would like to see her on Oprah!! I would like to see documentaries on how she was right and I want her to be on Graham Norton and johnathan Ross (I know she is shy, but I have heard her on radio 4 - on the museum of curiosity she was marvellous and I think Bridget Christie was on too and tried sniping, but was magnificently rebutted. She was also in the Simon Armitage's shed, and it was a lovely episode.)

I would like to see Sharon Davies, Martina navratilova etc rewarded,maybe with specific women in sports trophies named after them?

But most of all, more than anything, I want to go and see Father Ted the Musical, I want to see glinner on telly talking about other things and writing a comedy starring James dreyfus that wins a bafta, and getting a really lovely, funny, clever girlfriend. I want happy endings for everyone, really.

Beyond an investigation into Mermaids and susie green, a restructure of stonewall, a couple of doctors being disbarred and a few plastic surgeons being put in prison, I don't know really what else we could do except sigh in relief that our children are safe.

me too :)

The medicines watchdog who licence things, NICE isnt it? something like that and then they in turn will attack the manufactures.

It is the MHRA that licence drugs not NICE. But puberty blockers are not licenced for this use so it is down to the doctors who prescribe them off-licence. The manufacturers are clear unless they can be shown to be illegally promoting drugs for this use.

Teachers for example. How would they be able to say they didn't know?

School staff will be out of a job PDQ if SLT proclaim that transgirls are girls but staff say, No, Andrew, your name is not Andrea and you are not getting changed in the girls' changing room. It's a fine thing to stand up for your principles but if you lose your job your principles won't house and feed your own children.

@rogdmum

I could say many things, but we are in the middle of a formal complaint with our daughter’s school (appeal heard last week) so I won’t, but where activist teachers have driven school policy and intentionally ignored clinical advice against affirming, and made baseless accusations to social services that parents following watchful waiting (on the back of clinical advice) have put their child “at the threshold for child protection”, they should absolutely be held accountable for their actions.

There’s a difference between staff following school policy as dictated to them, and the staff actively driving that policy and abandoning basic child safeguarding.

Yeah rogdmum. I follow you on Twitter.

So won’t say anything here that would affect your appeal but my support for you and your family is here

It won't happen but I'd love to see regulatory bodies who did not pick up on this and universities (lecturers) who taught this utter rubbish to those charged with safeguarding children held to account.

Basically, there needs to be a major forensic inquiry.

JoodyBlue

Three friends have blocked me over this, friends I have known for 25+ years.

I would like them back. Might mean an awkward discussion, but I would like them to stop thinking of me as a bigot fascist etc.

I would also like to see some reckoning fir the major commentators and news agencies who simultaneously blocked women's voices whilst labelling those who managed to find a platform as dangerous, bigoted, a danger to trans children, etc.

Good luck @rogdmum

But most of all, more than anything, I want to go and see Father Ted the Musical, I want to see glinner on telly talking about other things and writing a comedy starring James dreyfus that wins a bafta,

Brilliant idea! Love your optimistic post @rabbitwoman

Is this why the Tavistock rarely collected data, and never followed up on patients? So that there was no evidence when it came to the lawsuits?

I've been off Twitter for January but I noted in the last few months how LOJ has gradually stopped ranting quite so much about trans issues and seems to be turning his attention to new hobby horses - climate change, how useless Keir Starmer is and so on. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this or maybe he's back on it over the past few weeks? Anyway I'm looking forward to seeing what he in particular comes out with to justify his stance.

I've been saying for bloody years that it was only a matter of time before legal action was taken. My mistake was that I thought it would come along in about 5-10 years from people who transed in the sixth form or at uni, and suddenly twig at 30 what infertility means. Not wanting kids at 20 is a very different thing from still not wanting them at 30 or 35.

What worries me is that it will cost the NHS a packet. I very much doubt that the individual psych who saw someone for the mandated number of one-hour sessions and cheerily referred them to the gender clinic will be the one in the dock.

It looks as if it's going to happen in the States first. Doctors are obviously the most likely target for legal action because they have actively performed harmful surgery and prescribed harmful drugs on children too young to be able to properly consent. Psychologists who practise "gender-affirming" care will be next in line, I imagine.

My feeling is that it will only take one successful piece of litigation in the US for the NHS to call a halt to surgery such as performing double mastectomies on teenage girls or prescribing hormones that destroy fertility. Because otherwise they know they could be facing a bill for millions of pounds in lawsuits.

The real worry is if the US lawsuits fail. And that's going to be a possibility, given how in thrall parts of the population are to this ideology.

I wonder about companies that have got involved in this, such as the lottery who funded mermaids, or starbucks who have a campaign offering children to 'try out their new name'.

They can't be sued, but they may be pressured into making public apologies. They are normalising the idea that you can change your sex, they are making that lie seem real to both children and parents.

Good points RoyalCorgi .
There's a reason the law, the judiciary and children are relentlessly targeted. The law is meant to protect children from harm but if it's been effectively muzzled by very self interested groups, then they won't be protecting children from these groups any time soon.

Sorry to be pessimistic but I think this is a long way off. The country needs law firms to be willing to take on these cases and to cut ties with Stonewall which they are not currently willing to do.

Speaking from personal experience it is very difficult for gender critical women to get representation from law firms. Individual lawyers are really keen to represent but the law firms (that are generally Stonewall Diversity champions) say no.

The big irony is that women seeking legal representation for goods & services discrimination are actually being discriminated against by the law firms they are approaching! As we are not being given the service we are legally entitled to.

I suspect that stonewall will begin to see the writing on the wall and slowly back away. Amnesty won’t because they have gone too far.

But we won’t forget and be wary of them - no excuses,

They are coming. There has been a tidal wave of exposes and heads are rolling in Sweden due to this. And this is just the beginning. I for one am happy because women were already saying that this was wrong but the feelings had to be affirmed. Now the scandal is being broken and people are furious.. and I’m enjoying that those who gave the seal of approval in Sweden are now being held accountable.

Ooooh. Details please!

I agree with your pessimism IamSarah/ Sadly I think the major lawsuits are a long way off. It may take a decade plus for all the teenage girls caught up in the social contagion to finally understand the consequences of permanent infertility and loss of sexual pleasure as a result of drugs and surgery when they were too young to fully comprehend the long term implications.
Their fury and betrayal will be immense but it will be too late for them.

well, it's shit that it all happened, but I am glad people are being held to account, Marshmallow. Whose heads are rolling, exactly?

I tried to find some articles in English for you.

amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/22/ssweden-teenage-transgender-row-dysphoria-diagnoses-soar

There has already been a huge scandal of the amount of transgender referrals for children (mostly girls) and there was a bill that they were trying to pass to lower the age for sex change operations from 18 to 15 but thankfully it was not passed. I think if you ask the majority of Swedish public we do not agree with puberty blockers or self ID and treating children with drugs to keep them
In a child’s body. The trans ideaology is seems as harmful. If someone wants to be trans then live your life, but we have issues when it comes to children and taking away single sex safe spaces and encroaching on women rights. And I think a lot of the Swedish public are seeing the TRA movement as something bad for our society.

We want everyone to have a good life, but it can’t be at the expense of women and at the expense of the safety of children. It always amuses me when people thinks Swedes are these Uber liberal people. We believe you should live your life and as long as you’re not hurting anyone then fine. But under no circumstances does one group get to lord over and dictate what the rest of society does. And from what I’m seeing and hearing this TRA ideaology is not one that is welcome. It is seen as fracturous (is this a word?).. it doenst fit with our society. There have been many trans ppl living normal lives, but all of a sudden we are faced with demands and for women to give up safe spaces. And Swedish women have seen on days where there are “gender neutral “ days are places how men behave and we don’t like it.

Don’t ever think that Swedish women or Scandinavian women in general are ok and running around nude and topless in front of men and that we are ok with this gender neutral utopia. It does not exist and we have never been on with this, nor do we want this! We also want to be able to go to sauna in peace and we don’t want men in the toilets. We want to have the bathing clubs safe. We do not want to have children being put on puberty blockers.

I want to say this because I got the impression from British people when I was living there that you think Swedish people have this nude free for all and we are actually quiet respectful people. We like to have a very nice life for everyone, yes but we do not live in a pornographic movie and Swedish women are not ok with men being naked and having their penis out in the bathrooms etc. I don’t know where this comes from as we don’t sauna together with the men. And if a man or “trans woman” were to come in with their penis out then it would be inappropriate and women would Leave. Do not assume just because Scandinavia has a reputation for “liberal” attitude that we are living this nude penis out and topless running around sec all over the place fantasy. It’s nonsense.. and I would argue that Swedish women are specifically angry at being told we have to give up space or rights for people who “feel like women”. I do not like Sweden being used as an example for a pro trans place because we are in fact a place that wants equality for all, not equality for all at the expense of women! This is not an option for Sweden. And I can imagine Swedish women taking to the streets and mass strikes before we allow our lives to be interrupted and spaces encroached upon like this.

We aren’t stupid and we know exactly what a trans woman is. You will be hard pressed to tell us that someone raised as a man comes before us! Of course I don’t speak for all Swedish women, but I’m not unusual in my opinion.

But there have been girls as young as 14 getting their breasts removed and even younger being looked at to get puberty blockers. It has been decided that this all has to stop and of course parents are upset because many were pressured that if they did not affirm their child being trans it could mean issues for the child. It’s all emotional blackmail of course.

There was already a lawsuit where trans people were sterilized and the government has to pay compensation so of course if you sterilize children with puberty blockers then when they become adults they will not be able to have children. So I think the government is trying to prevent more of this, but also parents are pushing back.

There is not much I can find in English to share and I’m sorry about that. But if you speak Swedish then there are many articles on this.

The consensus seems to be that giving children puberty blockers is an unethical medical experiment. And it needs to stop and investigations done into what was being done to children previously.

As I said, we had trans people getting surgery and just living their life and no one bothered them. This insidious tra movement has spread all over the world and it is harming not only children but women everywhere, or trying to.

If places want to offer unisex toilets fine. I’m ok with this, but I still personally hate unisex toilets and I do not want men in the toilet with me. I do not want men in the sauna with me naked (unless it’s my husband). I do not want men in the bathing locker room with me etc.. it’s about safety and my comfort.

There is no need to put children on puberty blockers. And you have to ask what purpose does it serve to trans children? Is it the validation? Does saying a child can be trans offer validation needed by adult trans ppl? Does it offer lifelong patients for pharmaceutical companies? Does it ensure foot soldiers for the movement? These children will be sterile so it takes away that choice. It’s doing away with safeguarding and there are elements of grooming from what I can see. So what is the end goal here?

Sorry for the long post . But I’m continuing to be shocked by what I’m hearing come out in the reports here and I’m sure when they do finally break in the UK you will be too.

RFSL is the gay rights group in Sweden.. lately it has been under scrutiny for trying to lower age of sex assignment and also it seems to have become more and more militant and focused on less rights for gay and lesbian and more of a trans rights group. I would say it is becoming very much like stonewall.

And I don’t want to o imply Sweden is against trans ppl.. we have trans ppl and they have been part of society. We aren’t transphobic. But no one has also been asking women to step aside and give up rights for their feelings.

And we also live in reality in Sweden and recognize biology and science. Scientific fact still trumps ideaology and we should I hope always remain a rational people.

Re Sweden the "Trans Train" series of documentaries is excellent (subtitled in English).

They are linked to here: bayswatersupport.org.uk/the-trans-train-and-transgender-regret-documentaries/