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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Associated Press Covers Story of Schools Manipulating Kids to Change Gender Identity

43 replies

Delphinium20 · 22/01/2022 03:08

This makes me feel as if the tide is turning in the US media, which I know impacts international news. The AP covered a story I've only heard about from Abigail Shrier's own substack where she investigated teachers who were grooming students to join their private Equality Club by stalking them online. It's well balanced reporting, IMO. What the teachers were doing should send a chill down any parent's spine. If @MN would allow this, I think this belongs outside FWR, but I don't want to break rules, either.

apnews.com/article/business-california-gender-identity-cdb790cc3059e71e22d86b8e7b445361

OP posts:
334bu · 22/01/2022 06:58

Thank you for the article.

WarriorN · 22/01/2022 07:22

I remember this but yes, that it's getting into mainstream is excellent.

It's so chilling.

I can see it happening in the U.K. too.

Goatsaregreat · 22/01/2022 08:16

Thanks OP. That's a very clear article. British teachers are being advised to behave in similar ways by self interested activist groups. There's no doubt that similar charges will be brought against some teachers looking at the numbers of mixed age LGBT groups in schools discussing age inappropriate issues (for younger students).
I feel sorry for younger teachers with limited experience - never before have external groups been allowed to influence educational policy in this way. It will result in some of them being accused of grooming children and trying to influence children in sexual matters that they have no business raising with them.

KittenKong · 22/01/2022 08:25

Teachers put on leave - school being sued. More of this please.

WandaWomblesaurus73 · 22/01/2022 09:18

The most popular teacher at my dd's school has a trans flag hanging behind her desk. There are pronoun posters up in the corridors. The kids get rainbow gifts at the LGBTQ club.

It's happening everywhere.

ArabellaScott · 23/01/2022 16:36

'In a leaked recording from a California Teachers Association conference, Caldeira and Kelly Baraki were quoted discussing how they kept meetings private and “stalked” students online for recruits.

“When we were doing our virtual learning — we totally stalked what they were doing on Google, when they weren’t doing school work,” Baraki said. “One of them was googling ‘Trans Day of Visibility.’ And we’re like, ‘Check.’ We’re going to invite that kid when we get back on campus.”'

JFC

Chiochan · 23/01/2022 16:57

I work in a UK school. We have rainbow day and kids are encouraged to participate by being given cakes and little presents. I do think the TRA teacher who runs the LGBTQI group targets vulnerable children.
Some kids are desperate to feel special and grown ups know this.

MarshmallowSwede · 23/01/2022 17:21

I do volunteer work for a rape recovery center and we do work with children who have been victimized by child predators.

So much of these tactics are exactly what predators do to groom their victims. It should send a chill down your spine! It’s horrible what these schools are trying to do.

Delphinium20 · 23/01/2022 17:22

@Chiochan

I work in a UK school. We have rainbow day and kids are encouraged to participate by being given cakes and little presents. I do think the TRA teacher who runs the LGBTQI group targets vulnerable children. Some kids are desperate to feel special and grown ups know this.
It's love bombing. And children want to please adults so they go along.
OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 23/01/2022 17:25

@MarshmallowSwede

I do volunteer work for a rape recovery center and we do work with children who have been victimized by child predators.

So much of these tactics are exactly what predators do to groom their victims. It should send a chill down your spine! It’s horrible what these schools are trying to do.

It feels so deliberate - as if the teachers know a child wouldn't come to the gender belief without their nudging.

I can only imagine how difficult your work is.

OP posts:
FrancescaContini · 23/01/2022 17:26

@Chiochan

I work in a UK school. We have rainbow day and kids are encouraged to participate by being given cakes and little presents. I do think the TRA teacher who runs the LGBTQI group targets vulnerable children. Some kids are desperate to feel special and grown ups know this.
Why don’t you speak out about this? It’s grooming!
FrancescaContini · 23/01/2022 17:28

Agree with @Delphinium20 that such behaviour smacks of love bombing.

In my (limited) experience, love bombing is a speciality used by narcissists.

Chiochan · 23/01/2022 17:44

I would be fired.

SantaClawsServiette · 23/01/2022 17:47

At my kids school, for quite a while there were no activities in the school due to covid, except for the LGBTQ+ club and the club for indigenous students. And up until recently it was those or sports and for most kids indigenous club isn't an option.

Talking to my eldest, while I don't think the teachers targeting kids, it seems like it's full of kids who are outsiders, not into sports, looking for some group to associate with - a lot are kids who are in various special education programs, may be ASD, just don't fit in, whatever.

Similarly my friend whose daughter is 13 is at a school in the next district, says her daughter is the only girl in the class not in their club, and the other girls keep pressuring her to join.

What I really find disturbing though is that there is nothing else for the kids - there isn't band or a drama class, or an art club, or debating, model parliament, chess club, photography club - any of the things non-sporty kids were involved in, met friends in, and built their teen identity around when I was younger.

Goatsaregreat · 23/01/2022 17:49

@Chiochan

I work in a UK school. We have rainbow day and kids are encouraged to participate by being given cakes and little presents. I do think the TRA teacher who runs the LGBTQI group targets vulnerable children. Some kids are desperate to feel special and grown ups know this.
It's crossing so many professional boundaries. Imagine if a middle aged teacher set up a group and invited selected "heterosexual children" to meet and discuss sex and relationships with him? There'd be an uproar.
MarshmallowSwede · 23/01/2022 17:57

A big part of grooming is the keeping of secrets from the main caregivers or adults who have a close relationship with the child. It’s a red flag for any adult to tell a child “don’t tell mom or dad or don’t tell this person or that person”. “It is just between us”. Red flag!

If it’s a piece cake of sweets and mom said no. And the child gets this snack.. ok fine. We can consider that innocent. But also be aware that grooming can start even as innocently as that. Keeping of larger secrets. Meeting in secret. Talking about sexual themes. Talking about sexual feelings etc.. these are extremely inappropriate and I would argue not in the scope of teaching. If we speak about sexual education in a class room setting then of course it is fine to dicusss in an age appropriate way. But even then personal discussions about sexual things for a child is inappropriate.

Another red flag is creating an enemy of the care giver. Telling a child that mom and dad will not understand, so tell me instead. Mom and dad will punish you if you don’t go along with what I say (discouraging “outing” a child so that parents won’t kick the child out) I would say is a manipulative tactic used to alienate the adult caregiver and person who is keeping the child safe. What is the assumption the child will be met with hostility? They just assume all parents will be hostile? That’s something a groomer does to make the child think they can only trust the predator.

Grooming is an insidious, often long drawn out, targeted attack on the psyche of a child. Never underestimate the tactics and willingness to go to any lengths to get and keep access to their victim.

Targeting vulnerable children, isolating them mentally and emotionally from their parents or guardian, keeping secrets, secret meetings, creating an air of mistrust for the child towards their parent or guardian.

There is no reason why a teacher should be asking a child sexual questions. Again.. if age appropriate sexual education is being taught in a classroom setting then even then, no personal sexual questions or anecdotes should be mentioned and the lesson should be taught purely in an educational, factual way.

Parents should also be aware of escalation tactics of grooming. And groomers will often gaslight the parent or guardian by saying you are over thinking, or suspicious of nothing. I would argue to be extremely vigilant of any adult wanting private access to your child, sending private messages, emails or any correspondence to your child without going first thru you.

Escalation tactics are an increase in the amount or intensity of the attention being shown from the groomer to the victim. Increase in communication, increase in private meetings.

There is no reason ever for an adult to be calling your child on the phone or emailing or messaging your child on social media.

Adults are not friends with children and adults do not ask children for help or advice. So if your child is facing an adult seeking friendship with them then this should put you to alert. And I stand by this.. there is no reason for a friendship between a child and adult to be. Can a coach or neughbour take a friendly innocent interest in your child and maybe play football with him or her. It’s possible but I always urge vigilance on the part of the parent. No adult outside of family (of course the most common abuser is relatives) should be allowed alone 1-1 access to your child ever. You might even consider vetting your relatives as blood relation does not automatically mean they are safe.

It’s better to err on the side of caution and risk the hurt feelings and offense of the adult over your child being victimized.

I personally don’t care what adult is offended. Your feelings don’t come before safeguarding a child and I would rather hurt a million adults feelings than have one hurt child.

So be vigilant, be strong and be willing to say no access when it comes to your child.

Believe me.. I’ve seen and dealt with horrific cases and the parents saw red flags and they assumed they were being irrational. It’s not worth the damage tk the child.

When in doubt. Say no.. and even when verified say no. Access to children is a privilege not a right! And most people have no business around children tbh.

And always question why this person needs access to your child. They don’t have a reason! A closed door , secret meeting, email, message.. all need to be looked into. Do not ever give the benefit of the doubt.

It might seem overly vigilant but predators go to amazing lengths to access children so you need to go to amazing lengths to protect them.

Think of it like this. A shark is an apex predator. They will always hunt for prey… a child predator will always hunt for prey. They will never stop. The only stop is to remove the access to the children.

Please please do not just assume that a teacher is wanting 1-1 access to discuss sexual themes is ok. This behaviour that these teachers exhibited is exactly the definition of grooming.

Stay vigilant. And remember.. access to children is a privilege. And it can and should be revoked as soon as any red flags are seen. Never give the benefit of the doubt and don’t assume that only men groom children. Women also do too.. as with these two teachers.

Internet access, emails, phones are all great isolation tools. Be especially prepared to monitor all access points. Predators will use them.

Delphinium20 · 23/01/2022 17:59

I believe you @Chiochan I have family in teaching positions and yes, they worry getting fired for anything regarding gender/trans. A Canadian teacher is currently on leave and slandered with transphobia for questioning in a formal library review if some books on transitioning were age appropriate for 11 year olds. She teaches English language to new immigrant children but now is kept from her classroom pending discipline hearings.

nationalpost.com/news/canada/no-dissent-is-allowed-school-board-bars-teacher-from-raising-concerns-over-transgender-books

OP posts:
Goatsaregreat · 23/01/2022 18:12

@MarshmallowSwede

A big part of grooming is the keeping of secrets from the main caregivers or adults who have a close relationship with the child. It’s a red flag for any adult to tell a child “don’t tell mom or dad or don’t tell this person or that person”. “It is just between us”. Red flag!

If it’s a piece cake of sweets and mom said no. And the child gets this snack.. ok fine. We can consider that innocent. But also be aware that grooming can start even as innocently as that. Keeping of larger secrets. Meeting in secret. Talking about sexual themes. Talking about sexual feelings etc.. these are extremely inappropriate and I would argue not in the scope of teaching. If we speak about sexual education in a class room setting then of course it is fine to dicusss in an age appropriate way. But even then personal discussions about sexual things for a child is inappropriate.

Another red flag is creating an enemy of the care giver. Telling a child that mom and dad will not understand, so tell me instead. Mom and dad will punish you if you don’t go along with what I say (discouraging “outing” a child so that parents won’t kick the child out) I would say is a manipulative tactic used to alienate the adult caregiver and person who is keeping the child safe. What is the assumption the child will be met with hostility? They just assume all parents will be hostile? That’s something a groomer does to make the child think they can only trust the predator.

Grooming is an insidious, often long drawn out, targeted attack on the psyche of a child. Never underestimate the tactics and willingness to go to any lengths to get and keep access to their victim.

Targeting vulnerable children, isolating them mentally and emotionally from their parents or guardian, keeping secrets, secret meetings, creating an air of mistrust for the child towards their parent or guardian.

There is no reason why a teacher should be asking a child sexual questions. Again.. if age appropriate sexual education is being taught in a classroom setting then even then, no personal sexual questions or anecdotes should be mentioned and the lesson should be taught purely in an educational, factual way.

Parents should also be aware of escalation tactics of grooming. And groomers will often gaslight the parent or guardian by saying you are over thinking, or suspicious of nothing. I would argue to be extremely vigilant of any adult wanting private access to your child, sending private messages, emails or any correspondence to your child without going first thru you.

Escalation tactics are an increase in the amount or intensity of the attention being shown from the groomer to the victim. Increase in communication, increase in private meetings.

There is no reason ever for an adult to be calling your child on the phone or emailing or messaging your child on social media.

Adults are not friends with children and adults do not ask children for help or advice. So if your child is facing an adult seeking friendship with them then this should put you to alert. And I stand by this.. there is no reason for a friendship between a child and adult to be. Can a coach or neughbour take a friendly innocent interest in your child and maybe play football with him or her. It’s possible but I always urge vigilance on the part of the parent. No adult outside of family (of course the most common abuser is relatives) should be allowed alone 1-1 access to your child ever. You might even consider vetting your relatives as blood relation does not automatically mean they are safe.

It’s better to err on the side of caution and risk the hurt feelings and offense of the adult over your child being victimized.

I personally don’t care what adult is offended. Your feelings don’t come before safeguarding a child and I would rather hurt a million adults feelings than have one hurt child.

So be vigilant, be strong and be willing to say no access when it comes to your child.

Believe me.. I’ve seen and dealt with horrific cases and the parents saw red flags and they assumed they were being irrational. It’s not worth the damage tk the child.

When in doubt. Say no.. and even when verified say no. Access to children is a privilege not a right! And most people have no business around children tbh.

And always question why this person needs access to your child. They don’t have a reason! A closed door , secret meeting, email, message.. all need to be looked into. Do not ever give the benefit of the doubt.

It might seem overly vigilant but predators go to amazing lengths to access children so you need to go to amazing lengths to protect them.

Think of it like this. A shark is an apex predator. They will always hunt for prey… a child predator will always hunt for prey. They will never stop. The only stop is to remove the access to the children.

Please please do not just assume that a teacher is wanting 1-1 access to discuss sexual themes is ok. This behaviour that these teachers exhibited is exactly the definition of grooming.

Stay vigilant. And remember.. access to children is a privilege. And it can and should be revoked as soon as any red flags are seen. Never give the benefit of the doubt and don’t assume that only men groom children. Women also do too.. as with these two teachers.

Internet access, emails, phones are all great isolation tools. Be especially prepared to monitor all access points. Predators will use them.

Another great post. It gives me the rage to see the open denial of basic safeguarding knowledge. We (collectively) know this stuff yet the government allowed so many organisations and groups who openly undermine these principles.

I've got screenshots of training materials from GIRES openly advocating people working with children to keep secrets and completely negating safeguarding, even for the youngest of primary children. They've now sneakily amended these without acknowledging to all the people who hold a "qualification" from them that what they taught them was wrong.

Professionally dangerous to children yet so fucking arrogant that they put out this rubbish with no thought. There'll be no consequences for them - just a potential disaster for some poor confused child who may well get a safeguarding free response from one of their "trainees".

SantaClawsServiette · 23/01/2022 18:19

[quote Delphinium20]I believe you @Chiochan I have family in teaching positions and yes, they worry getting fired for anything regarding gender/trans. A Canadian teacher is currently on leave and slandered with transphobia for questioning in a formal library review if some books on transitioning were age appropriate for 11 year olds. She teaches English language to new immigrant children but now is kept from her classroom pending discipline hearings.

nationalpost.com/news/canada/no-dissent-is-allowed-school-board-bars-teacher-from-raising-concerns-over-transgender-books[/quote]
I saw this video before it was taken down. The idea that the teacher was challenging the "right to exist" of transgender people or making comments that would open them up to abuse is just a complete fabrication.

I'm not sure how they think it looks in their favour that they hide what actually was said. Maybe they hope that people will assume that it was something at least that could be controversial?

atee · 23/01/2022 18:26

@Chiochan

I would be fired.
Could be worth consulting with a lawyer first, then if they fire you there is a good chance you can have arranged it so they can be sued.

You could get paid and be a hero.

Worth a bit of investigating anyway.

Chiochan · 23/01/2022 18:37

To be clear, I dont think the teacher is up to anything naferious. She is just a true believer and has been (willingly) Stonewalled to the max.

I dont know if she thinks she is helping these kids or not, tbh, I dont think she thinks at all iykwim.

Chiochan · 23/01/2022 18:37

She believes this is what good people do.

twelly · 23/01/2022 18:51

I feel the actions of some teachers within schools and colleges is appalling and has fuelled this trend. The teacher who wants to be "edgy" promote equality then goes far beyond seeking equality and respect in the way that people are treated - they activity encourage students to be one of the crowd - and then we have your parents won't understand etc etc. It has created in some institutions a cult - the LBGTQ society which the students then seek to identify with the more unusual categories as its the latest "in thing" - with this comes the need by these students to become more and more different and interesting. It appalls me and what is more parents are accused of whatever phobia is the latest. Safeguarding is then turned on its head

catzwhiskas · 23/01/2022 19:18

Great post “marshmallow* why is it that these guidelines seem to be ignored in favour of the wishes of some, and maybe some unwitting teachers are caught up in it. But these red flags as you describe seem pretty obvious to most of us here. Thank you for spelling them out though.

FrancescaContini · 23/01/2022 19:47

@SantaClawsServiette

At my kids school, for quite a while there were no activities in the school due to covid, except for the LGBTQ+ club and the club for indigenous students. And up until recently it was those or sports and for most kids indigenous club isn't an option.

Talking to my eldest, while I don't think the teachers targeting kids, it seems like it's full of kids who are outsiders, not into sports, looking for some group to associate with - a lot are kids who are in various special education programs, may be ASD, just don't fit in, whatever.

Similarly my friend whose daughter is 13 is at a school in the next district, says her daughter is the only girl in the class not in their club, and the other girls keep pressuring her to join.

What I really find disturbing though is that there is nothing else for the kids - there isn't band or a drama class, or an art club, or debating, model parliament, chess club, photography club - any of the things non-sporty kids were involved in, met friends in, and built their teen identity around when I was younger.

Children should be encouraged to try out sports or music or drama or politics etc but instead they’re only given the opportunity to navel gaze and ruminate on their “identity” - I think these young people are being seriously failed by the “educational” establishments that are like the ones you describe. It’s really very sad, especially for the pupils who don’t have opportunities for music etc from their home environment.
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