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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Associated Press Covers Story of Schools Manipulating Kids to Change Gender Identity

43 replies

Delphinium20 · 22/01/2022 03:08

This makes me feel as if the tide is turning in the US media, which I know impacts international news. The AP covered a story I've only heard about from Abigail Shrier's own substack where she investigated teachers who were grooming students to join their private Equality Club by stalking them online. It's well balanced reporting, IMO. What the teachers were doing should send a chill down any parent's spine. If @MN would allow this, I think this belongs outside FWR, but I don't want to break rules, either.

apnews.com/article/business-california-gender-identity-cdb790cc3059e71e22d86b8e7b445361

OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 23/01/2022 21:24

Agree with @FrancescaContini about unnecessary ruminating on identity when real skills like music, debate, sport, language, crafts are ignored. Obsessive naval gazing is a recipe for unhappiness for anyone, particularly teens and tweens.

OP posts:
FrancescaContini · 24/01/2022 07:02

@Chiochan

I would be fired.
@Goatsaregreat has a very obvious but pertinent point: would you be fired for raising concerns in the scenario s/he describes? I doubt it.

Bottom line: adults talking to minors about sex (unless they’re trained to do this and it’s within the firm boundaries of a PHSE lesson) is a safeguarding red flag. Teachers of ANY sexual orientation should NOT be running lunchtime clubs etc for teenagers that focus on sexuality.

Bring back drama/photography/debating etc, for goodness sake, and get the children who are drawn to such groups to expand and explore their interests.

WarriorN · 24/01/2022 11:15

@Chiochan

I would be fired.
Yep I believe you.
WarriorN · 24/01/2022 11:15

There is whistle blowing though and low level concerns.

The problem is is everyone around you has also swallowed the cool aid

MerryPoppings · 24/01/2022 11:19

This is a safeguarding issue for all parents. It makes me angry that Mumsnet won't allow this to be discussed outside of the naughty corner. All parents need to be aware of these issues, confining them to feminism means only people who already know about these issues are informed.

FrancescaContini · 24/01/2022 11:36

@WarriorN

There is whistle blowing though and low level concerns.

The problem is is everyone around you has also swallowed the cool aid

Parents need to call it out. Ask to see the RSE curriculum. It’s supposed to be open for parent consultation. Go through it and if there’s anything that sits uncomfortably with you, go to the head of year or deputy. Articulate why you’re uncomfortable. Refer to DfE guidelines.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/01/2022 12:00

@Goatsaregreat has a very obvious but pertinent point: would you be fired for raising concerns in the scenario s/he describes? I doubt it.

You need to work in the sector, education or crisis centres. You wouldn't repeat that sentiment quickly

Bottom line: adults talking to minors about sex (unless they’re trained to do this and it’s within the firm boundaries of a PHSE lesson) is a safeguarding red flag. Teachers of ANY sexual orientation should NOT be running lunchtime clubs etc for teenagers that focus on sexuality.

Again, work in the sector and you will see how common sense is being undermined, replaced with feelings and inclusivity, all supported by "ahead of the law" training and workpacks

Bring back drama/photography/debating etc, for goodness sake, and get the children who are drawn to such groups to expand and explore their interests.

Yep. Music, drama, reading, sitting down and thinking. Any of those kinds of clubs would be great. But not sexy enough to get funding.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/01/2022 12:01

Parents need to call it out. Ask to see the RSE curriculum. It’s supposed to be open for parent consultation. Go through it and if there’s anything that sits uncomfortably with you, go to the head of year or deputy. Articulate why you’re uncomfortable. Refer to DfE guidelines.

Maybe stop shouting AT and start calling TO?

WarriorN · 24/01/2022 12:26

How do we whistle blow with things like this in the authority?

https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2021-09/BHCCTrans%20Inclusion%20Schools%20Toolkit%200Version4Sept21.pdf

I don't think Chi would actually get sacked but I don't think it would be easy to do this.

The culture of schools, the lea etc can be exceptionally suffocating.

I sit through so many child protection training sessions, especially low level concerns and Whistle blowing and I do struggle to see how I could be cast iron supported in some school settings.

In my own, not a problem.

In Brighton and hove? With stuff like this being promoted by the LA? 🤷🏻‍♀️

WarriorN · 24/01/2022 12:29

When labelling the genitals consider the message that these relate to biological sex rather than gender. Consider using the language that most, rather than all boys have a penis and testicles and most, rather than all girls have a vulva and vagina.

I mean ffs.

Associated Press Covers Story of Schools Manipulating Kids to Change Gender Identity
WarriorN · 24/01/2022 12:35

The whole document is horrific but this particular bit riles me especially:


Special Educational Needs and Disabilities (SEND)

Children and young people with SEND may need additional support in understanding or accepting their own identity, learning about those who are different to them, and understanding that difference is to be respected and celebrated.

Staff, parents, carers, and wider professionals may need support in understanding that a child or young person with SEND is just as likely to be lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans or gender exploring as any other person. There is developing research showing that there is a higher prevalence of autistic people who are gender exploring or who have gender identity differences. There is likely to be a range of reasons for this.

The National Autistic Society includes articles on its website about this.
It is important that a child or young person’s words or actions are not automatically attributed to their SEND, for example, preferences for clothing types or hair length being seen as a sensory need, or behaviours described as a new special interest, fascination, curiosity or phase. Whilst this may be true in some instances, it is important to listen without judgement so that expressions of questioning gender identity are not dismissed.

Emotions related to gender identity are complex for anyone to understand and express, and this could be exacerbated in those with communication and interaction difficulties.

Some children and young people with SEND may not see the need to communicate and may not understand that others don’t already see them in the same way as they see themselves or know themselves to be. This could obviously lead to increased frustration and anxiety and impact negatively on well-being and mental health. Providing one-to-one support for the child or young person to explore issues in a non-judgmental, safe way with conversations that go at the child’s pace will be important.
33

Differences in social understanding, empathy and communication may mean specific support is needed. Tools such as Mind Mapping, Comic Strip Conversations and Social Stories may be useful to support communication and understanding.

In addition, there may be potential increased vulnerabilities of a young person with SEND. Staff will need to give increased support as needed and teach children about safety including online.

Stonewall has resources to support SEND children and young people on their website.

Support is also available from the Brighton & Hove Inclusion Support Service (BHISS) and Allsorts Youth Project.


So basically use social stories and comic strip conversations, which I've used, to groom and gaslight vulnerable children.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/01/2022 12:40

Consider using the language that most, rather than all boys have a penis and testicles and most, rather than all girls have a vulva and vagina.

Cos obviously the ONLY trans people are transwomen. Nary a transman to consider.

None so blind, I suppose.

KittenKong · 24/01/2022 12:52

I’m curious to know how the teachers tracked search terms by the kids - assuming they were using school logins?

WarriorN · 24/01/2022 12:55

School online systems now do log search terms for safeguarding and obviously block sites. For us it's LEA held though.

I can imagine individual schools hold their own data in other parts if they world.

FrancescaContini · 24/01/2022 15:33

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Parents need to call it out. Ask to see the RSE curriculum. It’s supposed to be open for parent consultation. Go through it and if there’s anything that sits uncomfortably with you, go to the head of year or deputy. Articulate why you’re uncomfortable. Refer to DfE guidelines.

Maybe stop shouting AT and start calling TO?

Sorry - what do you mean?!
FrancescaContini · 24/01/2022 15:35

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]**@Goatsaregreat has a very obvious but pertinent point: would you be fired for raising concerns in the scenario s/he describes? I doubt it.

You need to work in the sector, education or crisis centres. You wouldn't repeat that sentiment quickly

Bottom line: adults talking to minors about sex (unless they’re trained to do this and it’s within the firm boundaries of a PHSE lesson) is a safeguarding red flag. Teachers of ANY sexual orientation should NOT be running lunchtime clubs etc for teenagers that focus on sexuality.

Again, work in the sector and you will see how common sense is being undermined, replaced with feelings and inclusivity, all supported by "ahead of the law" training and workpacks

Bring back drama/photography/debating etc, for goodness sake, and get the children who are drawn to such groups to expand and explore their interests.

Yep. Music, drama, reading, sitting down and thinking. Any of those kinds of clubs would be great. But not sexy enough to get funding.[/quote]
With respect - perhaps I do work in a relevant context. Perhaps I have drawn attention to it. Perhaps some of my colleagues listened to me.

SamphiretheStickerist · 24/01/2022 16:34

Sounds vastly different from my past and present experience (excuse the name modification)

In education I would have hesitated to raise the issue as, even 5 or 6 years ago, there was a sacred caste growing. It was difficult back then to challenge the bought in orthodoxy and it was creeping in back then.

And these days, as recently as last week, I have quietly tested the waters before raising this issue where I volunteer/work - in part for a rape crisis centre. I was fortunate in that we are not particularly young or led by anything other than a real and very old fashioned feminism for women alone.

If you have very different experience in either sector I am jealous. It should ALL be as you have experienced.

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