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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kate Clanchy - poet - is 'cancelled' by her publisher

558 replies

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 14:23

Picador are unpublishing - ceasing to distribute - all of Clanchy's books. The article says 'by mutual consent', but it's not a good thing to hear a poet/author being 'cancelled'.

Literature/poetry is not in a healthy state right now.

unherd.com/thepost/picador-cancels-poet-kate-clanchys-books/

In case you missed the brouhaha - Article from last year:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58151144

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SelfPortraitWithPterodactyl · 28/01/2022 10:23

I've just finished the book and I am really angry. I think it is utterly, utterly shit behaviour on the part of her publisher to dump the entirety of her work after having published the book, for which they are after all responsible for editing etc in the first place, and I would think that even if the book was an utter shitshow. But it isn't. It is humane, thoughtful, humble and truthful.

I understand why people resented some of the descriptions. Taken out of context they could sound offensive. But they are, in almost every case, presented in a context where she is explicitly examining her assumptions and prejudices. The 'narrow skull' of the Somali boy, for example, is mentioned in a chapter about the perception of race and ethnicity based on physical characteristics: it is deeply relevant to the boy's story whether he 'looks Kenyan' or 'looks Somali' - and those are ideas which she deliberately interrogates, positioning herself as painfully ignorant. The chapter about 'fatness' may be 'fatphobic', but it is about the gaze of a privileged observer and how that plays out - how privilege translates across the whole spectrum of education and money and ease of life, and what bodies demonstrate and do in that context. (It's like the way that I, as a feminist, would be enraged by being described as 'flat-chested' by a random man, while a breastfeeding consultant writing about her experience of helping me breastfeed would have every right to call me that - because it's not only true, it's entirely relevant.)

Clanchy is writing truthfully about how injustice is reinforced by unconscious bias, and trying to make that conscious. She says: 'I still suppose that [...] most people are prejudiced; that I am, that prejudice occurs in the reading of poetry as well as everything else. I also think that if you acknowledge it, and try to set it aside, you can see more.' That should be the tagline of the book, FFS. Her crime appears to be that she speaks as honestly as she can about what prejudices she brings to the table. Does it matter that she is writing about the shifts in her perception which make her, not perfect, but clearer-sighted? No, apparently she should be punished, not only for being racist but for talking about how racism works, even in the best-intentioned people. So what do you do, if you are privileged, and know you are, and you're trying to be humane and human and open about that? Nothing. You can't win. Shut up.

I get that people are furious about racism and injustice. They're right to be. But if your answer to oppression is to want to reverse the roles completely, then you're part of the problem. (And I say that as an equally furious feminist.) If you silence anyone privileged who dares to address how the problem looks from 'their side', then what are you left with? Silence, and no progress at all. Arabella has it right: you don't get writing that's free from racism, you get writing that is careful not to be accused of racism : and what that means is that the dominant voices are so scared to include anything 'outside their lived experience' that they play it safe, and stick with writing about people who look exactly like they do, and our discourse gets even less diverse.

You cannot solve a problem unless you can see the problem. Censoring people for trying, as best they can, to anatomise the problem, is about as counter-productive as you can get. Telling the truth - unvarnished, ugly, "problematic" - is the first step on the path to social justice. It is also the only rule of good art.

Tell the truth, tell the truth, tell the truth.

TwentyFirstCenturyTricoteuse · 28/01/2022 10:29

Well, as I pointed out, there is evidence that at least one ex-KC pupil was unhappy with the book on GR. Did anyone ask the others what they thought? I would argue that Pullman was as much an uninvolved gatekeeper as the anonymous critic.

Not everything needs to be robust literary criticism. I can confidently say I think L. Ron Hubbard's books are shit without having read them without having to write a thesis on why. If I were writing an Eng Lit exam, fine that wouldn't stand up as a response, but on Goodreads? Sure it does.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2022 10:37

Of course you can't give an informed opinion before having read a book, Twenty, unless you are quite happy to allow your thoughts and beliefs and opinions be formed through the prism of other people's prejudices, ideas and opinions.

I still haven't got my copy of Some Kids, but I do look forward to reading it.

Ptero, thanks, that's a great post. There does seem to be a narrowing of what it is acceptable to write about - or who it's acceptable to write about. Concurrently, I expect, a narrowing of what it is acceptable to think. Only 'lived experience' counts as 'valid', apparently, but then again, only the 'lived experience' of some people. The girl/woman (not sure of her age) who defended Kate Clanchy's use of 'almond eyes' has presumably not had the correct lived experience of her body?

I do understand concerns about appropriation - I suppose it comes from an examination of power imbalances and hierarchies adn privilege, etc. Which is an exercise worth considering. However we need to retain an acknowledgement of humanity and compassion while doing that. Roxane Gay wrote an excellent piece on privilege:

'Given that even very privileged people can be marginalized, how do we measure privilege? What is the correct hierarchy? We can’t measure privilege. We shouldn’t even try. Our energies would be better directed to what truly matters.

Too many people have become self-appointed privilege police, patrolling the halls of discourse, ready to remind people of their privilege, whether those people have denied that privilege or not. In online discourse, in particular, the specter of privilege is always looming darkly. When someone writes from their experience, there is often someone else, at the ready, pointing a trembling finger, accusing that writer of having various kinds of privilege. How dare someone speak to a personal experience without accounting for every possible configuration of privilege or the lack thereof? We lose sight of this but we would live in a world of silence if the only people who were allowed to write or speak from experience or about difference were those absolutely without privilege.'

therumpus.net/2012/05/peculiar-benefits/

And it makes me think of Ian McEwan's quote:

'“Imagining what it is like to be someone other than yourself is at the core of our humanity. It is the essence of compassion and the beginning of morality” '

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TwentyFirstCenturyTricoteuse · 28/01/2022 10:39

quite happy to allow your thoughts and beliefs and opinions be formed through the prism of other people's prejudices, ideas and opinions.

Well, yes, in some cases I am. I haven't read Mein Kampf but I'm happy to rely on other people's opinions on it.

TwentyFirstCenturyTricoteuse · 28/01/2022 10:45

^^by which I obviously don't mean KC = Hitler... It's just a general principle that our opinions are perforce shaped by the opinions of people around us we admire. That's surely just part of being part of society.

I shall step out now because I have nothing against KC per se and arguing on general principles probably isn't helpful.

Phobiaphobic · 28/01/2022 10:54

Bravo, @SelfPortraitWithPterodactyl - spot on.

SantaClawsServiette · 28/01/2022 13:19

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]He tweeted this under a discussion of whether the time it takes to read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand was a worthwhile investment. It was nothing to do with Kate Clanchy.

Critics of Kate Clanchy: is this the kind of support you welcome? Someone who thinks it's not necessary to read a book before condemning it? What a shameful attitude. It would find a comfortable home in Isis or the Taliban.

Chimene Suleyman responded with anger and quote-tweeted him.

Ok so you just compared me and two other brown/Muslim women to ISIS and the Taliban? Is this a sick joke?

twitter.com/chimenesuleyman/status/1424690206159081472?t=JOzKFd-uOyDixUa9qQkfmA&s=19

And that ended up with Society of Authors involvement, and coverage of it in Private Eye

www.theguardian.com/books/2021/aug/11/society-of-authors-philip-pullman-tweets-kate-clanchy[/quote]
Ah, ok.

I don't have much time for PH, but I think he's right, reading excepts on Goodreads is not reading a book.

That does not mean you need to read Atlas Shrugged, life is probably too short, but you can't be too critical of it either.

And thinking it is adaquate to read some little quotes suggests to me that the person making that statement doesn't really understand that the whole is not the sum of it's parts.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2022 13:31

Yes, nobody is suggesting ITS THE LAW to read any particular book. But if you've not read you're not in a position to criticise it. Nor, I suppose, defend it, which is why I look forward to reading the book this thread's about and which has just landed on my doormat.

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SantaClawsServiette · 28/01/2022 13:38

@TwentyFirstCenturyTricoteuse

quite happy to allow your thoughts and beliefs and opinions be formed through the prism of other people's prejudices, ideas and opinions.

Well, yes, in some cases I am. I haven't read Mein Kampf but I'm happy to rely on other people's opinions on it.

This is so dangerous in this context.

It reminds me of my local library recently where Pride protesters tried to force them to remove Abigail Shrier's book. One of the things the communications person was quoted as saying was along the lines of "well, would they have Mein Kampf in the library?" Which just goes to show the extent to which some people do not actually understand libraries, writing, how to understand ideas, etc.

Not everyone can read everything, it's impossible, but there is a real danger to this kind of reliance on others opinions. Anyone who reads a lot of significant books will come to understand that you cannot quote mine reliably to come up with an understanding of the argument in a book, what it is about. The context and the structure are as important as any individual quote.

Someone with that kind of experience of reading will rightly be hesitant to condemn any book on the basis of reading just these kinds of quotes, and will refrain from offering an analysis if they haven't read it. Because you cannot analyze a few quotes taken out of context - you can't even understand a book if they are given with context if you haven't read the whole.

SelfPortraitWithPterodactyl · 28/01/2022 14:02

Yes. We all outsource our judgements a bit, because we cannot form informed opinions on everything, we simply don't have time. It's only human to say, well, someone whom I trust thinks this is harmful and therefore my hunch is that it probably is harmful. As long as you know you're doing it, and you are open to changing your mind when you find out more, it's just part of negotiating the world.

And no one is saying that you 're not allowed to confidently assert things, regardless of whether you can back them up. Assert all you like. Be as confident as you like. Knock yourself out, it's what the Internet Goodreads was designed for. That's free speech in action.

However, I (and I suspect others on this thread) do rather cling to the quaint old-fashioned view that the respect and attention your opinion receives should be proportionate to your ability to support it.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2022 14:16

the respect and attention your opinion receives should be proportionate to your ability to support it.

T-shirt slogan?

Rather a large T-shirt?

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SelfPortraitWithPterodactyl · 28/01/2022 14:17

Grin Cloak, maybe? Coupled with a witch's hat?

crosshatching · 28/01/2022 15:14

I haven't read through the thread entirely so sorry if this has come up before, but so much of this could've been avoided if publishing was a more diverse industry. To have other readers read a script to check if their understanding of the text is the same as what the author feels they have written.
Publishers really need to examine exactly how they can broaden their workforce, the lack of diverse voices is hurting their business. To say nothing of just being out of step.

ArabellaScott · 28/01/2022 16:27

What, witchhunts could be avoided by a more diverse publishing industry? How so?

Sensitivity readers don't really seem to be working. For one - I don't think more thought-policing is the answer, and for two, not all 'diverse' voices are going to agree (sort of hinted at in the word 'diverse'). It's just going to create more and more purity spirals. I recommend Roxane Gay's article, linked above, on privilege and nuance.

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InaccurateDream · 28/01/2022 16:39

It's complex because KC has made a few mistakes. The language was outdated, and she shouldn't have gone after the reviewer.

But I followed her due to the poetry, which I loved and she shared, and it's a real shame her students won't now be published.

The people attacking her made lots of good points but also wouldn't let go until she's been completely cancelled - I just think it was too much of a pile-on. From my twitter echo chamber the only author I saw get abuse was clanchy. It's like they wouldn't be happy until she was banished from the internet.

She does have some outdated approaches, but she also clearly cares a lot for her students.

SantaClawsServiette · 28/01/2022 17:33

@ArabellaScott

What, witchhunts could be avoided by a more diverse publishing industry? How so?

Sensitivity readers don't really seem to be working. For one - I don't think more thought-policing is the answer, and for two, not all 'diverse' voices are going to agree (sort of hinted at in the word 'diverse'). It's just going to create more and more purity spirals. I recommend Roxane Gay's article, linked above, on privilege and nuance.

Yes, right,

More and more I think this thing about diverse voices is seriously problematic, simply because of the assumption that some individual can speak for a group. It's actually the definition of treating people according to stereotyped views of that sex/race/ethnicity etc.

I was watching a talk by Glen Laoury the other day where he touched on this, he was talking about a list put out (maybe by a library association, I can't quite remember) of prominent black economists - and he noted that he wasn't onthe list - the first black tenured professor at Harvard, an economist who wrote books for popular consumption about both economics and race - and Thomas Sowell, who is one of the most prominent American economists, wasn't on the list. As well as several others. Why not - his feeling was because they weren't the right kind of black Americans, which is to say they didn't ave the right opinions.

I can't help but wonder whose views a sensitivity reader would be representing.

Sashimimimi · 28/01/2022 17:56

The people attacking her made lots of good points but also wouldn't let go until she's been completely cancelled - I just think it was too much of a pile-on. From my twitter echo chamber the only author I saw get abuse was clanchy.

Same here. I’m genuinely confused over this.

AKASammyScrounge · 28/01/2022 18:44

@IvyTwines

Picador is part of Pan Macmillan now. They currently have this on the opening page of their website!
Oh, the irony!
Sashimimimi · 28/01/2022 18:47

Every time there’s been any media attention on Kate Clanchy within the last few months, Twitter has been full of censure about the abuse and harm inflicted on the 3 WOC who were at the centre of the original storm last summer.

And apparently the horrific abuse they’ve received redoubles and intensifies every time Clanchy’s situation is mentioned in the press.

This abuse re-traumatises and endangers them. And Clanchy knowingly puts them in harm’s way every time she speaks publicly about her situation because these WOC are then abused again.

I’m NOT saying this isn’t true. When this many people are saying it as though it’s incontestable fact, it certainly seems like it must be the truth. But I haven’t actually seen anything like that happening. Has it all been removed from Twitter? Or was it all done via private messaging? Confused

The 3 women all complained Clanchy had re-victimised them through the media reporting on her parting with Pan MacMillan yet they all proceeded to tweet about her daily, repeatedly, over the last week (don’t know about today as two of them have now locked their accounts).

Sashimimimi · 28/01/2022 19:23

The Daily Mail article didn’t mention this woman. It seems somewhat dishonest of her to claim that it’s “significantly increased the physical threat” she faces.

Kate Clanchy - poet - is 'cancelled' by her publisher
Kate Clanchy - poet - is 'cancelled' by her publisher
Sashimimimi · 28/01/2022 19:39

These reactions to Pravina Rudra’s article just seem like dishonest hyperbole.

“Actively inciting racial hatred against women of colour”

”Lives threatened for calling out Kate Clanchy’s racist renderings”

“Terrorised for daring to speak truth to power”

Kate Clanchy - poet - is 'cancelled' by her publisher
Kate Clanchy - poet - is 'cancelled' by her publisher
Kate Clanchy - poet - is 'cancelled' by her publisher
Sashimimimi · 28/01/2022 19:44

Others are parroting the “nobody’s talking about her lying about the goodreads review” line. Even though Pravina Rudra did mention it, quite clearly 🙄

Kate Clanchy - poet - is 'cancelled' by her publisher
Kate Clanchy - poet - is 'cancelled' by her publisher
Kate Clanchy - poet - is 'cancelled' by her publisher
everythingcrossed · 28/01/2022 20:44

@ArabellaScott

What, witchhunts could be avoided by a more diverse publishing industry? How so?

Sensitivity readers don't really seem to be working. For one - I don't think more thought-policing is the answer, and for two, not all 'diverse' voices are going to agree (sort of hinted at in the word 'diverse'). It's just going to create more and more purity spirals. I recommend Roxane Gay's article, linked above, on privilege and nuance.

One of the reasons that sensitivity readers don't work is partly because the people who commission them are so woefully ignorant that there might be any nuance in race. For example, I was listening to a podcast with an author recently who had written a novel from the perspective of a black character at an American university. When his agent, who loved the book, found out that the author wasn't black (but, iirc, Filipino), he passed it to a reader who was British Jamaican and whose experience of the world that the author was writing about must have been very limited. But, you know, she was black and the agent clearly felt he had discharged his duty by getting a person of colour involved.

The other problem is that it is a self-fulfilling prophecy - give someone a MS and tell them to comb through it looking for offence, that doing that is their whole purpose, how many people are going to hand back the script without a mark on it? The more instances they find, and the subtler they are, the more their value is enhanced. It's a completely loopy way of doing business.

everythingcrossed · 28/01/2022 20:47

Applause for @SelfPortraitWithPterodactyl

KimikosNightmare · 28/01/2022 20:53

@Sashimimimi

These reactions to Pravina Rudra’s article just seem like dishonest hyperbole.

“Actively inciting racial hatred against women of colour”

”Lives threatened for calling out Kate Clanchy’s racist renderings”

“Terrorised for daring to speak truth to power”

I've been reading Singh's Twitter feed. I haven't seen anything excpet unadulterated praise for her. Singh was tweeting at length about this over the last few days.

This reads as enormous hyperbole.