Cheryle: Karen White prison sexual assault

[pombear]

I don't think this has been posted yet, but will delete if iI'm duplicating.

Cheryle has waived her anonymity to talk about the sexual assault she experienced in prison by Karen White. I'm sorry this happened to you Cheryle.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10406351/I-sexually-assaulted-transgender-rapist-womens-jail.html

A female prisoner has described her ordeal at the hands of a transgender woman who sexually molested inmates at a women's jail during a three-month reign of terror.

Waiving her anonymity in an interview with The Mail on Sunday, Cheryle Kempton is the first victim to speak out in the hope that it prevents other women facing a similar fate.

'We felt they had protected Karen over us,' said Cheryle. 'All women in prison are vulnerable.'

It is just staggering that this was allowed. What on earth were they thinking?

@OhHolyJesus do have a read. Reagrdles iof how Cheeze sees it there is a passage in the middle that could have been written by any one of us - lovely stats and figures and plain speaking.

There is also a sentence about Cheryle that shows some balance and care for her. It comes after a description of White's crimes of sexual violence inside and outside prison "At the time, Cheryle – who became trapped in a cycle of offending because of drug addiction – was almost halfway through a sentence for burglary."

So a drug addicted burgler vs a sexual predator

It#s not bad. A

Oh, and @CheeseMmmm shame on you for judging a woman on her appearance!

And further for those last two sentences

Is there anything actually achieved here?
Apart from good finally some reports in big audience news?

@Crazykatie

Prison is awful and much worse for those with “different” identities because they are bullied even more, mens jails are even worse.

My brother works in mens prison in the “education” department and there are some seriously warped and evil inmates there, what happens behind closed doors does not bear thinking about.

So what?

You would choose to visit that male 'craziness' on women?

The ONLY way to manage this is to house trans inmates in a trans section, in the estate that matches their sex. Gender and/or 'identity' is entirely irrelevant!

@Chocaholic9

It is just staggering that this was allowed. What on earth were they thinking?

Poor menz!

So brave to tell her story like that. Women in prison really are amongst the most vulnerable in society. Out of sight out of mind. And subject to all sorts of extra punishments such as being housed with males , dreamt up by peope involved in the system

Honestly sometimes I think the wrong people are behind the bars.

I think it's a really honest and sympathetic account of how it was for her. The majority of ordinary people, including daily mail readers, do not think women should be punished by being sexually assaulted in prison by men. It's only a special sort of narc that thinks that is ok.

What a brave woman, brava Cheryle.

'She would get special privileges to buy make-up on certain sites like Asos and she was allowed to use the internet to buy her wigs,' said Cheryle. 'We were never allowed to do that, so why was she?'

I think usually DM/MoS readers don’t like the idea of prisoners having privileges or an easy time and tbh in this situation I would agree with them - in terms of White being allowed to buy makeup and wigs. How on earth is that fair?

Cheryle, you have been let down by the state and I’m furious that you were put in this position. Thank you for speaking out.

It’s like the Emperor’s New Clothes where not only is the Emperor naked, he also has a massive tattoo reading ‘I don’t have any clothes on’.

Love it! As a friend of mine puts it, I think we are furiously agreeing here.

The summary of the issue at the bottom of the story is really clear. Excellent to see the facts being laid out like that, along with their consequences and implications.

The only thing I hated was the use of female pronouns for the rapist. I'm fucking angry that Cheryle is still having to pander to men's rights while describing sexual grooming and violent assault.

Yes, that bothered e too. But it does show how far the fuckwittery goes - and links to the sentence about the new Bench Book. So makes quite a strong statement in and of itself!

@Crazykatie

Prison is awful and much worse for those with “different” identities because they are bullied even more, mens jails are even worse.

My brother works in mens prison in the “education” department and there are some seriously warped and evil inmates there, what happens behind closed doors does not bear thinking about.

So one subset of men has an issue with another subset of men (transwomen). Why should that be made into a problem for women (transwomen in womens prisons)?

Do DM readers actually need convincing that males in women's prisons is just a hard no?
@CheeseMmmm you are missing the point. Most of the country agree that intact males should not be in women's prisons. In fact, most of the country think that such a proposition is so absurd that it couldn't possibly be happening. They need convincing that this is happening, they already know that it's wrong.

I reckon this article's purpose was to get across the fact that these convicted criminals still have a penis. Coupled with the fact this individual was a sex offender, it clears up some general misunderstandings about the situation.

I'm glad we've got the victim's voice in all of this. Thank you Cheryle. It certainly dispels the myth that trans prisoners are the only vulnerable group we need to be concerned about.

I do think that prisonerswith gender identity issues are vulnerable but surely people can see that there are those that seek to exploit the loophole in order to carry on offending and exert power over women. Surely the prison authorities and politicians must see that soon. It's basic safe guarding.

@Torunette

I reckon this article's purpose was to get across the fact that these convicted criminals still have a penis. Coupled with the fact this individual was a sex offender, it clears up some general misunderstandings about the situation.

Most people do not know that transwomen can be put in women's prisons.

Articles like this one help to illuminate the situation.

Gosh, I hope Cheryle finds her way to the posts here.

Thank you, Cheryle, your testimony is so important and I'm very glad you were able to speak up.

I am so sorry that you were treated in this way by the state and I am using my ball of burning rage to do everything I can to stop it from continuing.

Courage calls to courage, Cheryle. You are an inspiration.

Following on from lovelyweather 's point about the challenges of trying to distinguish between 'genuine' TW and males who are exploiting something they see as bringing personal benefit: there is too much concern about (and time being lost debating) how to separate the one group from the other to gatekeep who comes into the women's estate.

The starting point must be that whatever the question of male prisoners, the answer cannot ever be going into the female estate. Females are not a resource for meeting the needs of males, regardless of how vulnerable those males may be.

There should be, without question, safe and appropriate provision for vulnerable male prisoners. How to get the genie back in the bottle and work out how to tell sincere users of this provision from those exploiting the provision is going to be the challenge of those running the vulnerable provisions in the male estate and it won't be easy. Although I suspect the minute that 'going into the female estate' is off the table, the incentive to exploit will be considerably reduced.

If the need is for safety, respect for identity, freedom of access to needed resources and support, then the option of a place on trans specific wings would meet the need. (And would provide TM with an alternative to the female estate since they currently have none of the options so urgently being offered to TW.) If the need is to be with and have access to females? The answer is no. No male has the right to access to females.

Absolutely Artichokeleaves, the starting and only point is what sex are they and that is birth sex not legal fiction sex.

Obfuscating it with genuine or not genuine is just that obfuscation and it needs to stop now. If these supposed 'genuine' transwomen fear being in the prison estate of their birth sex then maybe it would be a damn good idea not to commit a crime which will result in them being there.

All males go into the male prison estate and the onus is on the managers of that estate to provide the required safety for those who are vulnerable, that's it. Clear, concise, straightforward, no fudging, no chance for bending the rules.

You could have a "genuine trans woman" in principle, I suppose - if you were able to define it. Which would mean defining a "not genuine trans woman".

Both of which would be debates I'd follow with interest.

I'd get Ruth Hunt to speak up on this, she created the transumbrella, right? Nancy Kelly, obvs. Ben Hunte for the LOLs. Adrian Harrop, he's at a loose end after all. Grayson Perry to roll his eyes. Debbie Hayton, Miranda Yardley, and best add India Willoughby for balance and to make our points for us. Tinsel to explain a thing or two to all the politicians. In fact, anyone off this board who fancied it could come along. Stephen Nolan to ask the questions he didn't. And Jenni Murray to chair.

@DdraigGoch

Do DM readers actually need convincing that males in women's prisons is just a hard no? *@CheeseMmmm* you are missing the point. Most of the country agree that intact males should not be in women's prisons. In fact, most of the country think that such a proposition is so absurd that it couldn't possibly be happening. They need convincing that this is happening, they already know that it's wrong.

I agree with this. Also, the Mail has a big presence internationally now too. Hopefully readers across the pond will be prompted to ask what their own legislators are thinking in allowing trans women unfettered access to women's spaces, especially spaces occupied by vulnerable women, at the behest of Biden and Trudeau - there will be American and Canadian "Cheryles" for sure.

Thank you for having the bravery to speak out, Cheryle

TRAs seem to be very quiet on this, only a few on Maya’s Twitter thread.

The starting point must be that whatever the question of male prisoners, the answer cannot ever be going into the female estate.

Yes. Or as Posie Parker said I don’t care if you’re called Marjory, you’ve identified as a woman for a thousand years and you wear your testicles as earrings. You’re not going in a women’s prison.

to all White's victims and brava to Cheryle - proper guts to come out in public like this.

And this whole issue was one I raised when I was still a Liberal Democrat, trying to get that useless fucking shower to take the issue seriously. And the pathetic wankers never managed more than the most mealy-mouthed reply, totally ignoring the very many safeguarding issues. The tossers should be 100% ashamed of themselves. I'm still fucking furious.