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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

So brave

67 replies

CervixSampler · 12/01/2022 20:41

I've just read this in the local paper. From a personal point of view I am uncomfortable with the thought that a social worker is not the sex that I perceive them to be. Our family have a social worker due to my abusive exH and DV is discussed with her. A social worker is working with very vulnerable people and I would be very uncomfortable if my social worker turned out to the not biologically female. I'm autistic and struggle enough. My brain will not accept the opposite of what my eyes see. This trans woman is saying they have passing privilege but women know, especially in close up situations, what sex someone is.

I think it's wrong to be misleading people you are snogging at clubs. It takes away personal choice.

I could say a lot more but anyways fear the HQ hammer.

Bolton trans woman hits back at online trolls who say she is 'misleading' men www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/young-trans-woman-bolton-hits-22725721

OP posts:

lucillelarusso · 13/01/2022 07:58

@OneEpisode

A 20 year old social worker? Who a year ago spent £30k on facial surgery?

This ^ The whole article is batshit crazy

highame · 13/01/2022 08:34

"They don't understand that I'm still a woman." That was the bit of the article that puzzled me, she is a transwoman, not a woman.

I agree with those who think this person should protect herself. Men can be very angry when they find out someone who they fancied, is trans. I had a discussion years ago with a man who said it would undermine their masculinity if they found out and they would be very angry. Apparently in the US their are lots of attacks on mtf trans people. I think she's being sensible. I wonder if there are gender neutral loos in the clubs she frequents.

JDaytona · 13/01/2022 08:50

That's an extremely orange person.

334bu · 13/01/2022 11:22

What an odd first post JDaytona.

ArcheryAnnie · 13/01/2022 11:32

You don't have to bellow "I'm trans" over club music, or otherwise put yourself at potential risk, to allow prospective sexual partners to have a choice in whether to kiss someone male. You just have to ...not snog them. That's all. If you do want to snog them, arrange a date, where both parties are less likely to be already drunk and can make informed decisions.

Cattenberg · 13/01/2022 11:41

I didn’t know that Social Worker was a protected title. Years ago, I dated a bloke who said he was a social worker. In fact, he wasn’t a qualified social worker, he was a carer for adults with learning disabilities. He eventually told me his full (long) job title. I can’t quite remember it, but it included the words “social”, “worker” and “domiciliary” and probably “care” as well.

Perhaps Tayla has a similar job and the journalist shortened the job title?

BootsAndRoots · 13/01/2022 11:47

Apart from the fake tan and being a social worker at the age of 20, I don't really have a problem with this.

This is someone who is attracted to men, has medically transitioned (to some extent) and seems generally harmless. My main concern is about men who pretend to be trans with self-ID (no medical transition, and mainly don't even bother to present with a feminine appearance) to get into female-only spaces, she is clearly not one of those.

Leafstamp · 13/01/2022 12:02

I think it's been established that this person is not a social worker, and like any young person spending that amount on plastic surgery, this person surely has 'issues'.

More generally, I agree with what @Voice0fReason said.

I think that ideally individuals should be able to request the sex of their social worker, though can understand that resources might not make that possible/easy for the services to guarantee to service users.

As for disclosing trans status in a club, I don't think it is necessary but what I would say is that, in any situation where someone finds out they've been conned then the victim of the con will not be happy and as the conman (so to speak), it is wise to be aware that there are some not very nice people out there who will take matters in to their own hands if you con them.

VelvetChairGirl · 13/01/2022 12:09

[quote CervixSampler]I've just read this in the local paper. From a personal point of view I am uncomfortable with the thought that a social worker is not the sex that I perceive them to be. Our family have a social worker due to my abusive exH and DV is discussed with her. A social worker is working with very vulnerable people and I would be very uncomfortable if my social worker turned out to the not biologically female. I'm autistic and struggle enough. My brain will not accept the opposite of what my eyes see. This trans woman is saying they have passing privilege but women know, especially in close up situations, what sex someone is.

I think it's wrong to be misleading people you are snogging at clubs. It takes away personal choice.

I could say a lot more but anyways fear the HQ hammer.

Bolton trans woman hits back at online trolls who say she is 'misleading' men www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/young-trans-woman-bolton-hits-22725721[/quote]
its a hard one for me, my ex was abusive I have had social workers and councilors etc, I actually think the fact my first councilor and social worker were male helped me not to generalize, I know the not all men thing is a bit of a meme, but it does help if you can learn to deal with them.

my son still has not, he refuses male councilors and therapists and wont use mens public toilets, (he goes in with me or pisses up a tree or something) he is 11.

but is this not deception? I just think people should have choice who they see, if your not comfortable around a man thats your choice.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/01/2022 13:27

@BlueberryCheezecake

So what are you proposing, OP, should trans people be banned from being social workers? Any other profession you'd like to see them banned from while you're at it?

Well, what are you saying!!!!????

Transwomen are not women? Are you suggesting that there is some intrinsic difference that needs to be accounted for? Or why would we have to consider this at all?

Welcome to the GC Side, @BlueberryCheezecake

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/01/2022 13:31

The bottom line is that this is the upshot of being a gay transwoman. It is not for women to sort out what is or is not the correct behaviour. That is something for men to sort out.

I don't care.

All I want is for this young person not to be in any space I expect to be single sex, female, or to approach me in any circumstances where I may be vulnerable, claiming to be female.

Biology matters.

KittenKong · 13/01/2022 13:33

@OneEpisode

A 20 year old social worker? Who a year ago spent £30k on facial surgery?

Wow who paid for that?

namechangerqwerty · 13/01/2022 13:49

A social worker degree is three years. It can be done in two years, but as post grad & with work experiences

Questionable all round.

KittenKong · 13/01/2022 14:57

I graduated a 3 year degree when I was 20. This was after starting school early and staying on for 6th year. I had a hell of a job explaining how I had completed a degree and post graduate and was still only 21.

And I certainly didn’t have £££ for cosmetic surgery!

JDaytona · 13/01/2022 19:17

@CuriousaboutSamphire

The bottom line is that this is the upshot of being a gay transwoman. It is not for women to sort out what is or is not the correct behaviour. That is something for men to sort out.

I don't care.

All I want is for this young person not to be in any space I expect to be single sex, female, or to approach me in any circumstances where I may be vulnerable, claiming to be female.

Biology matters.

Excellent post.

CheeseMmmm · 13/01/2022 23:48

I do care when GNC males esp when done up in vv stereotype feminine way are attacked, raped and so on by a man or men.

In any circs.

This article is not related to that apart from.

Assuming going clubs where straight men and pulling. That is risky for sure.

And the idea they should tell trans to random bloke/s in clubs who approach, mutual flirting etc. Is obv incredibly risky, at some point going to get violence.

So on that. True.

Men need to step up on the toxic norms v common amongst men, and the propensity to violence, sexual violence etc.

As a side note. While I totally agree no need to tell anything personal to random pull and snog. I mean that's normal not to spill that stuff.

I do think that the attitudes in some areas around it being extra amazing to pull straight man needs to be addressed. Again, one for the men.

oneplan · 14/01/2022 00:07

if it is dangerous to say you are trans in a club, (is it?) it must be more dangerous to snog straight men in a club?

CheeseMmmm · 14/01/2022 01:22

How do you work that out?

You don't believe that straight men generally react to realising they've ogled, approached, chatted up, snogged another person with any negativity?

Can you give s bit more of your thinking on that please?

Enough4me · 14/01/2022 01:35

The "passing privilege" in clubs really means good faker. Is it any different to cat fishing as this is fake too?

CheeseMmmm · 14/01/2022 02:10

Plenty of MRA say that women having (ones I've heard) well done makeup or
shapewear Inc push up or padded bras. Are misleading, deliberate manipulations of men. That this in unfair to men to be tricked into being attracted to. He's being conned if you like.

This is therefore s bit of a path that I personally don't want to go down.

And it's about individuals. Individuals do all sorts of things.

A man in a club doesn't tell s woman he's got a pregnant wife at home.

A woman in a club doesn't tell a man that she can become really aggressive and verbally abusive with men she's pulled/going out with when v pissed and she gets v pissed pretty often.

I mean and vice versa and loads more.

In this case the TW is exposing herself to a high risk of male anger, aggression, violence, sexual violence.

While different people might have different levels of what's OK and what's not.

When it comes to club pull snog then to me well it's life. In RL esp in meat market type places, I just can't see this person as doing anything different.

I wouldn't pull a man if he told me he was a convicted rapist. He's not going to mention that though is he. Ever. However far relationship gets.

In situation person in article if things do progress he's going to have to be told at some point.

And while yes it's a big deal for a straight man.
So is finding out fiance already married
Is prone to drunken violence
Has a criminal record for sex offences
Etc etc.

Adventsquirrel · 14/01/2022 02:45

She's probably not a social worker but if she is and she is trained, competent, professional and empathetic then I'm not sure what the issue is - as I understand it you can't request a social worker by sex anyway so DV victims can already be assigned a man.
Also she's not misleading anyone in clubs, she's going out being herself, and if men are attracted to her and snog her then that's their choice. She rightly tells prospective partners before getting into any intimate situations. Given the epidemic of male violence I think she's taking the safest option there.
I am 100% for protecting the rights of women and girls, but I can't see how her actions threaten that. Trans women have the right to work and socialise and I think when we start criticising them for simply doing those things it opens the door for accusations of transphobia, which then dilutes the message about the very real issues around safe spaces, sport etc.

Enough4me · 14/01/2022 11:11

I can see the TW perspective, but what about the men who would feel that they were misled?

timeisnotaline · 14/01/2022 12:16

@Enough4me

I can see the TW perspective, but what about the men who would feel that they were misled?

It is unfortunate they feel hard done by, but I would argue their anger should be directed at all the men who justify a trans persons caution in announcing their status to randoms in clubs. Male violence is the problem.

Enough4me · 14/01/2022 14:13

What about men who are not violent and do not react with violence, but who feel misled by being encouraged to kiss a TW?

Should a TW hold back from physical acts unless they are being upfront?

I suppose I compare that if we women are not happy to be tricked into men using our facilities, is it fair that men are tricked?

Soontobe60 · 14/01/2022 14:24

@OneEpisode

A 20 year old social worker? Who a year ago spent £30k on facial surgery?

I know this person. They’re not a social worker.

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