Golden Globes

[SwissBall]

news.sky.com/story/golden-globes-2022-power-of-the-dog-west-side-story-and-succession-among-big-winners-but-no-celebrities-at-scaled-down-event-12512810

Am I bigoted to want the Best Actress award to go to an adult human female?

Maybe they can just half the award show lengths now and just go for "Best performance by a person" "Best supporting performance by a person" happy days.

Doctoress has never been a word in the UK. Feminists used the example of doctor as to why female actresses should be called actors, because female doctors are not called doctresses. Ditto sculptress, waitress, hostess. Women doctors often get "lady doctor" instead.

[quote IvyTwines]@ShagMeRiggins as having a medical examination is one of the times when the sex of the person doing it can make a difference both in outcomes and the feeling of security and relaxation of the patient, I'd personally prefer it if we did still use sex-based words like 'doctress' in some circumstances.[/quote]
Fair enough. I’m happy with my preference, as you seem to be with yours, and don’t see any meaningful conflicts of rights or service delivery, despite different preferences in terminology.

It's not called ball room culture, it's drag ball culture. It's not about ballroom dancing at all: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_culture

Dang. What a difference a simple space bar can make.

I’m all Team Punctuation Matters, but hadn’t realised there was a difference.

Cheers, @Clymene. Every day, school day, yadda…

@TheHairyDinosaur

Maybe they can just half the award show lengths now and just go for "Best performance by a person" "Best supporting performance by a person" happy days.

Hasn't one of the awards thingies decided not to have sexed categories any more? The prediction is that women will lose out.

I wonder if they would have awarded it to a TW if the awards had been televised, as previously?

@KingofQueens

Pose is an exceptional series, and MJ Rogriguez is an exceptional actress in it. Actress is a gendered not sexed category. MJ is absolutely an actress. The "actress" category is definitely not as a pp suggests for "adult human females". That's a disingenuous claim, taking a phrase and transposing it to a different context does not make it so. Remember Anna Paquin? Best supporting Actress in 1994 -definitely wasn't an "adult human female" she was a child.

Good lord, is that the best you can do?

Shambolic.

@SwissBall

Yes you’re completely right. Anna Paquin winning as a child is just like a transwoman winning

It’s insulting, really, isn’t it - the quality of the argument (lack thereof).

I think it would almost be preferable if someone just came on and said “yah boo sucks you’re a bunch of stinky bum terfs”. Rather than this toe-curlingly bad attempt at a “gotcha”.

Cringe.

@ShagMeRiggins

*It's not called ball room culture, it's drag ball culture. It's not about ballroom dancing at all: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_culture*

Dang. What a difference a simple space bar can make.

I’m all Team Punctuation Matters, but hadn’t realised there was a difference.

Cheers, @Clymene. Every day, school day, yadda…

To be fair, it was @Poppy101010 who called it ball room.

I do agree that a space between words can change meaning profoundly!

To be fair, it was @Poppy101010 who called it ball room. I do agree that a space between words can change meaning profoundly!

Understood, I genuinely meant that I had learned something new (ballroom vs ball room).

I’m also reminded of the difference between trans woman and transwoman. I use the latter. Emphatically.

Thorough bold fail. I hope my meaning comes across.

This just jumped out at me from a pp -

'The Oscar for best director is a mixed sex category, and do you know how many times a woman has won it in 94 years? TWICE.'

Bloody hell.

@Waitwhat23

This just jumped out at me from a pp -

'The Oscar for best director is a mixed sex category, and do you know how many times a woman has won it in 94 years? TWICE.'

Bloody hell.

Yeah, but on the bright side there have only been five female directors nominated for Best Director (1977-2021), so if two have won, woo hoo! Great percentage?

/sarcasm off

There aren’t roles enough for female actors and most have a sell by date far younger than their male counterparts. Another category, fantastic please create one. Female category, please no.

Does anyone in power have the ability to think critically about the long term implications? And I’d also like the answer to what living as a woman actually means.

Another one here crying out for an explanation of how one can "live as a woman" when one is not...

I'm not a fan of the whole film and tv awards thing (I mean, get a real job) but while they exist they should be fair. Pretending that women have equal chance of winning and then patting yourselves ( you award ceremony people) on the backs for giving both awards to * is laughable.

I'm sure the women in the actress category aren't bothered about losing because "diversity and inclusion yay" and I'm sure they aren't bothered about losing the extra opportunities, added bankability and pay bump that mist likely come from the "golden globe winner" label.

@Poppy101010

But she has went through the whole process of transitioning to a woman. Lives as a woman - and goes to work as a woman.

She deserved to win. Outstanding character in Pose and was the best in that category.

So, people now deserve rewards for the long journey of cosmetically changing their bodies through expensive and risky surgery and hormones?

Sorry? When did that become a thing? Does the man who is becoming a lizard (using that logic) deserve extra reward from society?

Do poster’s really think this? That there is some miraculous journey a person makes that deserves reward? And this doesn’t then create some kind of ‘sacred’ group?

So female actors, overcoming decades of discrimination due to beauty, age, race, motherhood, and the high risk of sexual abuse, assault, rape and harassment now no longer deserve their own award.

Remembering they have overcome discrimination since birth.

Good to know that that industry has fixed their decades of misogyny then. Gosh in that short time since Harvey was exposed! They are miracle workers.

People saying this person should win obviously have no idea why the awards were there in the first place.

Tell us again when this male transitioned?

I would have no problem with the person winning the male award - accepted and lauded by others of thier sex - challenge assumptions around masculinity

@2Rebecca

Doctoress has never been a word in the UK. Feminists used the example of doctor as to why female actresses should be called actors, because female doctors are not called doctresses. Ditto sculptress, waitress, hostess. Women doctors often get "lady doctor" instead.

Sorry. You’re absolutely correct and I don’t know why on earth I wrote “It’s been a feminist movement, in the same way feminists moved to eliminate doctoress” seeing as how I have never used that word nor heard it used. It seems I just pulled it out of thin air as a possible example.

Honestly, I need to not post while I’m cooking. That would be a start.

@bordermidgebite

I would have no problem with the person winning the male award - accepted and lauded by others of thier sex - challenge assumptions around masculinity

Wouldn’t that be great

I know this isn't particularly relevant to the debate but I was curious about "doctoress" so I looked it up. It is a word, but obsolete:

www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/doctoress#

@Helleofabore

So female actors, overcoming decades of discrimination due to beauty, age, race, motherhood, and the high risk of sexual abuse, assault, rape and harassment now no longer deserve their own award.

Remembering they have overcome discrimination since birth.

Good to know that that industry has fixed their decades of misogyny then. Gosh in that short time since Harvey was exposed! They are miracle workers.

People saying this person should win obviously have no idea why the awards were there in the first place.

Tell us again when this male transitioned?

Quite.

Even on this relatively short thread you've got people arguing the opposite of each other, both with the goal of excluding women.

Let's see if we can exclude women by claiming that categories aren't based on sex, while simultaneously also excluding women by claiming there's no such thing as sex.

Pose is an exceptional series, and MJ Rogriguez is an exceptional actress in it.
Actress is a gendered not sexed category. MJ is absolutely an actress.
The "actress" category is definitely not as a pp suggests for "adult human females".

But she has went through the whole process of transitioning to a woman. Lives as a woman - and goes to work as a woman

Meanwhile

So female actors, overcoming decades of discrimination due to beauty, age, race, motherhood, and the high risk of sexual abuse, assault, rape and harassment now no longer deserve their own award.

Blisteringly obvious, breathtaking sexism which ever fucking way you turn.

And yes to the person suggesting an age category.

Let's get that rank ageism that is only promoted in this industry due to sexism, out in the open.

@Waitwhat23

This just jumped out at me from a pp -

'The Oscar for best director is a mixed sex category, and do you know how many times a woman has won it in 94 years? TWICE.'

Bloody hell.

And the film Jane Campion won this year's Golden Globe for is centred around men, and adapted from a story by a man. There is one female character, and she has hardly any dialogue, and very much a 'victim' sort of character, defined by her relationship to men, as widow, mother of a son, wife.

@Poppy101010

I don't really think the aim of this post was for me to explain any of this. Maybe google the definition of transwoman and you will get your answer.

No, the point many here are trying to make is that maybe you should THINK about what it was you posted instead of blithely trotting out the usual claptrap.

We ALL know what a transwoman is - a man who, for his own reasons, wants to present himself to the world in an often ultra feminine manner. To be able to show that ultra feminine face and body in areas that are usually, legally, by the social contract, single sex and female.

What we want YOU to do is think about why that man, that male bodied person should be allowed to do that.

He went through the whole process of getting up, getting dressed and walking out of the door. Like every other human being. What transition do you think is necesssary fro a man to be a transwoman?

The aim of most posters here in FWR is to say loudly and clearly that transwomen are all, by definition, male bodied. They have to be or they wouldn't be trans, would they?

Women cannot be transwomen? So what is the difference?

What do you think?

I’ve just seen this quote from the person who won this award:

This is the door that is going to open the door for many more young talented individuals. They will see that it is more than possible.

In other words, this is the door that is going to open the door for many more biologically male people to take awards and spaces away from the biologically female people who need them and who they were originally intended for.

They will see that a young Black Latina girl from Newark New Jersey who had a dream, to change the minds others would WITH LOVE. LOVE WINS.

Except this person was never a young girl, has zero experience of that reality or insight into it, and apparently zero empathy for those for whom it actually was/is their reality.

This isn’t love. Love doesn’t win here. MALE PRIVILEGE WINS. Male privilege wins here just as it usually does. It’s a travesty.