Great! DC1 school now joined the gender / sex nonsense

[NotEnglish]

Just before christmas we got an email from DC1 schools that they will end early on a certain day as the whole staff will attend an inhouse workshop as a preparation for the new sex education project the 10 to 12 years old will work on in the next months.
The email was quite vague and did not name the organisation that offers the training but mentioned "genderidentity" so I asked for clarification and asked explicitly if "trans" was included in the trainig and if yes, what were the key points.
Got an answer which still was vague. Asked again to please specify what they mean with "genderidentity" and how that differs from "sex" (We are in Germany so do not have different words for gender and sex, it's both "Geschlecht"). DC1 class teacher (which is also a lead on this project) sent me this picture:
She also explicitly wrote that they will talk about "how we can't always see the sex a person has"

So how do I go from here?
I already wrote her back that I don't want DC1 to take part in these lessons as I don't believe in this ideology and see a potential for harm for childrens health and womens rights and asked her how we can facilitate DC1 not attending.
Problem is: We have a law that makes school attendance compulsory so I don't even know if I have the right to have DC1 not attend.

I'm new to all this gender identity stuff, but I know my DC's teachers in NRW aren't allowed to give their own political opinions in lessons.

I'll warrant your DC's teacher doesn't have any factual evidence for the existence of gender identity, so she is actually just parroting whatever lobby group gave her that gingerbread man. I.e. she is voicing her own political opinion.

Can you pull her up on that?

I think this is NRW secondary curriculum (I guess this is right for age 10-12 in NRW): www.schulentwicklung.nrw.de/lehrplaene/lehrplannavigator-s-i/gymnasium-aufsteigend-ab-2019-20/index.html

I can't see any subjects that would include gender identity. Under Biology p 16-17 they cover Sexual Development, including physiological changes of puberty, pregnancy, and 'saying no in various situations'.

www.schulentwicklung.nrw.de/lehrplaene/lehrplan/197/g9_bi_klp_%203413_2019_06_23.pdf

You could ask how are these gingerbread lessons are being coordinated with the biology content?

Or, do you have a parent class representative you could approach about this?

It sounds like other parents might not know about the content of these lessons.

Once they realise you can't actually explain 'gender identity' without resorting to the sort of stereotypes parents have been fighting since kindergarten (boys: tough, don't cry, like cars; girls: neat, play princesses, like dolls etc), you might have more people on your side.

Project started today.
Class teacher told me she would speak with the head and get back to me. As I hadn't heard from her yesterday I wrote her an email. She answered tha DC1 can take part today as they would only talk about the project rules and the language.
I asked for clarification about the language part because the redefining of words like women and "Geschlecht" and the using of genderidentity is part of what I don't want DC1 exposed to. She did not answer, so DC1 styed home today and we homeschooled.
Will keep You updated.
(I would LOVE to see any slides or teaching material used yesterday in the workshop for the teachers.)

I found some German teaching material using this gingerbread man - it might give a clue as to what your DC's school is using:

divedu.eduskills.plus/methods/gender%2F03

Interestingly it seems to give trans people a different sexuality to homo or hetero - 'pansexual'.

Thanks for bringing this up OP. I must say I had no idea this ideology had got so far that it was being taught to 10 year olds in Germany.

Update again: Deputy Head wrote an Email to all the parents. Project was mentioned by yet another name *. Sounds all good (questioning stereotypes, physical changes due to puberty, correct word for body parts, being able to state boundaries.) until you kind of trip over a few words like "Geschlechtsidentität" (genderidentity), the multitude of different Geschlecht (don't know if sex or gender) etc.
And: In addition to the people who gave the introductory workshop for all the teaching staff yesterday the project will include Anyway ("https://www.anyway-koeln.de/wissenistrespekt/") and students from the Cologne university (some special project called "inclusive sex education for students of paedagogics" or something similar) who will come to the school and offer additional input to the kids and the grown ups.

I of course wrote an email with very specific questions regarding what is taught in this project. Waiting for an answer.

*Names the school has called the project in their emails:
"Beziehung und Sexualitaet" (Relationships and Sexuality)
"Unser Schulhof - Auseinandersetzung mit Geschlechtsidentitäten und Rollenerwartungen" (Our Schoolyard - debates with sexidentitys/genderidentitys and expected roles? not sure about the translation, sorry)
"Erwachsen werden" (Growing Up)
"Leben, Liebe, Lust" (Life, Love, Lust)
I am very confused!

I just went & read the website & the Wir Project that Anyway has created instantly raises red flags.

• people with VSD are being dragged in to the workshop content: this is not justifiable in terms of the 2019 “3rd gender” legal changes; it’s just another example of piggybacking off the needs of a very small group to try to further a particular agenda
• in addition to hauling people with VSDs into things, one of the terms they think it’s vital to define is “Rainbow Family”
• it works on a peer education model, which can be excellent - but the model they describe is very much like evangelisation with the focus on workshop leaders’ personal stories, which prevents there being a truly honest & open environment
• they start from the assumption that people are prejudiced against “LGBTIQ*” people; tell workshop participants that not only do Wrong Thoughts hurt feelings, if you think the wrong things you are a bully & you are causing actual physical harm to come people - it is a remarkable child who would be be able to ask questions about any of this

It is sneaky, OP. Matters are further confused by the sex/gender Pick Your Own Translation/Meaning issue (I really hope they’re claiming there are 100s of genders btw, because while that is a nonsense, gender itself is a nonsense - moving into such a bold claim against science as there being 100s of sexes would be much worse).

Ok, I’ve now fallen asleep twice & had MN randomly delete another couple of attempts (or “stremotg”, according to my last sleep-typing effort just now [or “kist byfffffoonnnn”, should you prefer]) so I am going to just shut up & post (& then go to sleep).

Thank You "NitroNine* these were exactly my thoughts when I skim read the Wir-Project website.

(I really really don't get it. You know, back in the days, when they added the T to the LGB I know that I thought something like "well, that's weird, LGB are 'sexual orientations' and trans ist not, so why do they get grouped together? But what do I know, I'm neither L nor G and not involved in the community so probably just uneducated and thus can't see why it's sensible to group them together so I will keep my mouth shut"
Then the I came along, and I vividly remeber thinking "That is just bizarre! Why put a biological disorder together with sexual preferences and people who feel they are something else than their sex?"
But again, since I wasn't in the scene and it did not really touch my everyday life in any way I just supposed they knew what they were doing and I was just to narrow minded to get it.
And now we have a looooooong grouping of letters, some of which I don't even know the meaning of (queer) signifying a weird mix of sexual preferences, feelings about oneself, biological disorders and what not, and here I am actually living in a country where one of the partys is working hard to introduce self-ID, the representative of my Wahlbezirk is the mysoginist "Queer-Beauftragter" of the government and the state school of my pree-teen child seems to promote that humans can change sex or at least have a sex that is not dicernible when seeing the person.
I feel old. )

Well on the plus side - was wondering if maybe the Lord Mayor, or at least her office, might possible to approach, but just a couple of news articles tell me where she stands - Rainbow Family means something TOTALLY different in German than in English. The German meaning of Rainbow Family is covered in schools here even younger than 10-12, just at that most basic level of “some people have a mummy & a daddy, some people have two mummies, some people have two daddies, some people live with/have only one parent, some people have two sets of parents because they were adopted…” (BTW, if you’ve not come across it, the term “rainbow baby” is sometimes used in English to mean one who is born after a miscarriage or stillbirth.) The English meaning is a group of “queer” friends, though you do see some local support services referencing the idea in their name, it’s not used in the media etc.

Oh for goodness sake what’s this now? I was trying to find something in English on Rainbow Family so everyone could point & laugh at my mistake (to be fair, I was, as documented, falling asleep at the time) & the very first thing tells me “oh no sorry, we’ve decided actually it’s all about The Queer”. This shoving groups together again doesn’t serve anyone well. Families with a parent who is trans (or where both parents are trans) will have a need for very different support from LG[same-sex]B families, particularly if it involves a parent coming out [& parents getting divorced]. The prejudice they face will also be different. They should have services that are tailored & devoted to them - & the same is true of L, G, & [same-sex]B families.

Your English is perfect by the way!

Huge sympathy. I’m in Scotland which has lost the plot oh this area. There are posters all over my DCs school saying there is no such thing as gender

I can’t protect my children from the messages but I have told them that what they learn at school in this area is a load of bollocks (which is a slang but apt word for nonsense)

There are posters all over my DCs school saying there is no such thing as gender

Isn't that denying the existence of transgender people? If there's no such thing as gender, how can anyone be transgender?

Or are they denying that sex exists? Flat out denial of reality shouldn't be taught to children.

“We are in Germany so do not have different words for gender and sex, it's both "Geschlecht"”

I understand how here and America ‘gender’ came to be a very commonly used euphemism for ‘sec’ - so much so that most people probably use ‘gender’ when they mean sex and do not realise that ‘gender’ is now defined in law as meaning the social aspects associated with sex.

But does anyone know why we ever got ‘gender’ as a word in the first place as another word? Why aren’t we like Germany?
Gender seems so vague.

“Then the I came along, and I vividly remeber thinking "That is just bizarre! Why put a biological disorder together with sexual preferences and people who feel they are something else than their sex?"

Quite. The thing is that by I ( Intersex) they do not mean those born with biological disorders of DSD, who have very particular needs and are nothing to do with trans.
They find it useful to appropriate a vague idea of DSD to cover the idea that some people are in the middle of a ‘spectrum’.

Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I can see this is what has happened.

School has finally answered (some) of my questions.
I really wan't to weep...
The teacher is contradicting himself in the email and of course mentions "sex/gender assigned at birth" and Intersex people and stuff like that.

Have to make dinner for the kids, hope to find time to give more details later but quick question: Is there any reputable Intersex-Organisation that clearly states that they wan't to be kept out of the transgender debatte?
(And really, aside of mentioning it in passing, why is Intersex even in the things covered in sex education? I mean, yeah, please do mention it while talking about female and male sex, we even have a specific sex category for it on the birth certificate, but come on, it's 0,2% of the population! It's a really rare condition. Why is it given so much space in the email from the teacher? )

I am afraid my dc would have a 'bad head ache' that day OP

@Chasingtime

I am afraid my dc would have a 'bad head ache' that day OP

The project started tuesday and runs till end of february. Two days a week. I really don't think DC1 can have so many headaches ;-)

I looked if there is a German organisation for people with DSD and there is but it is now called "Deutsche Gesellschaft for Transidentidaeten und Intersex" and looking at the site it's like 80% trans with little bit of intersex as a cover. Feck, that's depressing.

It makes one despair.

I now wonder just how much ‘knowledge’ officially out there in general is disingenuous, or nonsense, or quietly being promoted by some interested lobby group.

Dsdfamilies.org are a UK charity so might not be consider reputable in Germany. They say

"Avoid conflating DSD with LGBT and identity issues. Although this approach may seem
common, most intersex and DSD orgs and consensus statements agree that it is
unhelpful and does little to highlight and address actual issues faced by people with
DSD (see also the Resources and External Agencies section of this booklet). Schools
should also be mindful of this if other students give talks about LGBT+ issues in school.

“I think it is different in the sense that, well at least when I describe it to people, you
get confused very easily with trans people when you describe intersex as something
that is within the LGBT acronym which I think… it feels like… it can sort of be like your
struggle is overshadowed almost… by something that you are not affected by at all…
that you are conflated with.”

www.dsdfamilies.org/download_file/view/202/183

“Akela64

Dsdfamilies.org are a UK charity so might not be consider reputable in Germany. They say

"Avoid conflating DSD with LGBT and identity issues. Although this approach may seem
common, most intersex and DSD orgs and consensus statements agree that it is
unhelpful and does little to highlight and address actual issues faced by people with
DSD (see also the Resources and External Agencies section of this booklet). Schools
should also be mindful of this if other students give talks about LGBT+ issues in school.

“I think it is different in the sense that, well at least when I describe it to people, you
get confused very easily with trans people when you describe intersex as something
that is within the LGBT acronym which I think… it feels like… it can sort of be like your
struggle is overshadowed almost… by something that you are not affected by at all…
that you are conflated with.”

www.dsdfamilies.org/download_file/view/202/183”

I think that the way “LGBTQI” is being bandied around even by official bodies is damaging and adding to confusion.

Intersex should not be used to mean ‘non-binary’ or some point in a ‘spectrum’.

Because it can mean a DSD, ‘Intersex’ should not be in that list. DSD is neither a sexual orientation or a gender ‘identity’.

Can you get other parents who are supportive of your perspective? If more people wrote/question etc school are more likely to react.
I would also be having frank conversations at home with the dc. We are in Switzerland and have similar classes (although I have been able to remove mine)
Topics I have raised with Dc include:
Would you like grandma to be in a hospital ward that is single sex with a male bodied person in the bed next to them - that was what peaked my DH. Before that he was not really bothered.
I also showed them the pictures from standingforwomen.com which had graphic surgery pictures of arms with flesh removed to create a 'penis'
Dr Winstons statement on question time about our sex being in ever cell of our dna is also good. Maybe it’s on YouTube or someone can link it.
Also i discussed with dc how many men don’t get operated on and are intact despite presenting in a stereotypical feminine way - dresses etc. Men in women’s prisons
I find that when you show the dc the actual reality of what is going on then see the truth.
Dc1 late teens was incredulous when I pointed out that despite identifying as straight he could be considered a transphobe if he didn’t want to kiss/date a transgender woman.

I've not forgotten but have been very busy. Still haven't found time to give a full update AND still need to write an answer to the school.

Will hopefully be back this evening or tomorrow.

And I really despair: In the email from school the teacher talks about the "geschlecht" being documented at birth as male or female. But some people have a different "Geschlecht". Than you are genderqueer. Which according to him means you define yourself as neither feamle nor male, but something in between or something compeletely different. As an example he cites transexuals.

In a later paragraph he talks about the "Geschlecht" assigned at birth.
Hmm, weird, didn't he earlier say it was just documented at birth?

And then he goes on to the Body-geschlecht, which medicine and biology divide into male and female. But people who do not fit in these "drawers" are Intersex, which means between-sex, and is a mixture of male and female. The "geschelchtsmerkmale" (sex signifiers?) of these babies can't be classed into the male or female category.
These babys get "diverse" as a sex marker in their documents.

I really am no expert for Intersex conditions / DSD but even I do know that for some of the variations, the Geschelchtsmerkmale are definitely male or female (like Turner or Klinefelter). SOmebody who had training for giving lessons to schoolkids just last weeks should be a little more aware of the facts that DSD can come in extremely diverse forms.

I just saw this in the Times today, the Greens are really trying to push through 'progressive" stuff without much concers about consequences it seems:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a38f3a56-76eb-11ec-9998-b2483743c25e?shareToken=5e2971b21fd5d132baa10cbc10503ac1

This would be in line with the idea that in the proposed new Harry Potter film the part of his mother will be played by a transwoman.

[quote Igneococcus]I just saw this in the Times today, the Greens are really trying to push through 'progressive" stuff without much concers about consequences it seems:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a38f3a56-76eb-11ec-9998-b2483743c25e?shareToken=5e2971b21fd5d132baa10cbc10503ac1[/quote]
Yep. They are really pushing.
I mean, I'm all for "modernizing" formal relationships and stuff. In my eyes it is bizzare to mix a "romantic" thing with some rights and some obligations (as marriage does). Why does beeing married while not earning money give me the right for free health insurance when single non-earners have to pay? Etc.
And yeah, it's ok for people to think about "Hey, is it maybe better for children if more than just the biological or adoptive parents have obligations to them?" You know, interview people who have expertise. Think it trough. Ec.
But You can't just randomly say "4" because reasons. What about legalities?
Do each of these 4 people have to pay maintenance?
What about when they split, does the child get to see all "parents"? Do they share custody? What if the 4 parents can't agree on something? Do biological parents get more say or the ones the kid lives with? Is there a ranking? What when they all get old? Does the child have to pay care home fees for all 4 of them?

And what is realistically best for the kids? How established does a relationship to the kid need to be to let somebody be the 3. or 4. parent?
How do you make sure that it's not esentially a kids-trade? You know, as womb-renting is illegal in Germany, why not just pay someone to have a baby, then they put You as parent 3 and 4 and then they give up their rights. Et voila, now you "adopted" a baby without any checks.

I really despair.

Update on the matter: DC1 teacher assured us that tomorrow will only be biological facts and correct word for bodyparts.
DC1 will attend because of the law that a kid has to go to school.
I really really hope that "biological facts" do not include "people can change sex", or "women can have a penis" and that "correct words for bodyparts" do not include "lady dick"

And, interestingly, on the german parenting board I'm on somebody brought up the Trans-thing. I swear it wasn't me and I was not goading or steering the conversation in that direction. Somebody mentioned gendered clothes for kids, and somebody else went on a tangent. Since I was in an online meeting and just surfed with half my attention/brain, I think I may have been a little to direct. Only got some questions but suppose I will be flamed soon.
(Did phrase something really sloppy and not clearly defined so will probably have to backpedal a bit. Damn.)