Wes Streeting on trans rights.

[HPFA]

It doesn't end well (switch off from 1:56 to save your blood pressure) but some encouraging things in this from a prominent Labour frontbencher.

1. Speaks well about J K Rowling.

2. Also uses the phrase "sex-based rights" in a non-pejorative way.

No Labour front bencher could have gone this far even a few months ago. Times are changing.

twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1479470186172493828

After Starmer's hostage video, this is a great way for them to discover that they will not please the TRA.

So women will get a few soothing words about 'protecting single sex provision' which will be completely meaningless because Labour are still committed to Self ID, which changes 'legal sex'?

This is barely even smoke and mirrors, or crumbs, or jam tomorrow. Yes, they know it's a bad look. So they will change the packaging to make it more palatable while they plow ahead with the same plans they always had.

The programme including Streeting's comments, Political Thinking, has just started now on Radio 4.

And is he being cancelled by the trans activists the way female politicians who speak out are? Thought not.

His grandma went to prison and shared a cell with Christine Keeler. That's quite an anecdote.

The most important person in his life was his working class Tory grandad who voted Liberal and that was only to keep Labour out. Ha!

An interesting listen. Nick Robinson doing his job.

Streeting keeps on saying the goal is "winning hearts and minds". That seems to be in the context of getting acceptance by the public like with gay marriage, but I'd expect he's thinking of it in terms of what voters will be willing to accept in terms of inroads into women's rights.

I don't think these are even 'crumbs'. He's discussing electoral tactics. He doesn't agree with JKR but knows the OJ 'she's weaponising her trauma' approach plays badly with voters, basically. They've pushed so far to the extreme that even an MP saying that the removal of words like mother and breast feeding is wrong can now be painted as some sort of 'concession' to women.

what I am seeing is an ambitious politician apparently deciding it would be wise to distance himself from extreme TRA rhetoric

The problem isn't the extreme TRA rhetoric. It's the fact that if any man is walking about with a female passport or birth certificate, SSE are impossible. But that isn't seen as extreme, that's the status quo.

Acknowledging some TRA are extreme is distracting from the horror of what is happening now, and that no party seems to what to change.

Streeting keeps on saying the goal is "winning hearts and minds".

Where as he should know that the goal is creating a safe environment for women and children. It shouldn't matter if mens hearts are broken in the process.

Jo Maugham is apparently deeply upset at Streeting not picking a side, but then also tweets that Streeting is wrong to frame this issue as trans rights versus women's rights. Apparently the two aren't in conflict. But if the two aren't in conflict, surely there is no side to pick?

Apparently the two aren't in conflict. But if the two aren't in conflict, surely there is no side to pick?

Odd, isn't it?

@nauticant

An interesting listen. Nick Robinson doing his job.

Streeting keeps on saying the goal is "winning hearts and minds". That seems to be in the context of getting acceptance by the public like with gay marriage, but I'd expect he's thinking of it in terms of what voters will be willing to accept in terms of inroads into women's rights.

Yep. That was my understanding. It's the same as Nicola Sturgeon's consultation that aimed to 'convince' women that Self ID was tickety boo.

Want to win my heart and mind? End self-ID and all cack-handed versions thereof which let men talk themselves into women's safe spaces. Create third spaces or insist men fucking well treat gender non-conforming men with respect in men's same sex spaces. Which means create third spaces because men can't be trusted with that.

I found listening to this interview more disturbing than listening to Tom H or James M.

Not articulate enough to explain why tho!

@ArabellaScott

former head of ed at Stonewall ... interesting

but it seems to be more about 'how to win hearts and minds' and tone policing (the TRAs) than actually caring about women?

It is absolutely about hearts and minds and about the tone. Wes Streeting is a very clever man and if I was Starmer or Boris I've be worried. He is a good communicator and does not despise the voters. He is untainted by anitsemitism scandal and did not serve under Corbyn I think.

Think about what he does not say though. He does not say anything about the substance of what JKR says. He does not say women need their own single sex space. He says stop being rude to Jo it won't win you the argument but he does not extend this courtesy to Rosie Duffield and the problem women with GC views have in the party he is a member of, and a member of its front bench. And whilst he would not serve under Corbyn he will serve under Starmer who thinks women having cervixes is something that should net be said.

He is trying to smooth our feathers whilst promising nothing.

I welcome the toning down of the rhetoric but he does not agree with most of the things that most women on here say - at least I can see no evidence that is so.

Exactly, Christina. It's just about how to stop the shrill women from screaming so loudly as he dismantles and removes our rights. It's actually more about how to silence us more effectively.

What a contrast to Jackie Doyle Price.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4445897-Wow-Thank-you-Jackie-Doyle-Price

Now she says what we need and that we should have it. No policing tone and patronisingly smoothing feathers.

The more I think about it, the more I think Wes Streeting 's comments were a sophisticated version of 'calm down dear', oh and you can have the words breast-feeding as a sop.

I welcome the toning down of the rhetoric

It is a start but as the rest of your post suggests ChristinaXYZ, it's about reducing the temperature of the water by the smallest degree in order to get the fewest number of frogs (women) jumping out of it.

@WeeBisom

Jo Maugham is apparently deeply upset at Streeting not picking a side, but then also tweets that Streeting is wrong to frame this issue as trans rights versus women's rights. Apparently the two aren't in conflict. But if the two aren't in conflict, surely there is no side to pick?

He's in so deep he often hasn't a clue who he's lashing out at or how incoherent he's being (unless it's a fox in his sights when his aim is bloody and violent).

He is a careerist who cares only for his own rise up the party I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him

Yes but Labour need these people to win elections and we need them to stop self ID (and ideally tighten up the EA).

If we only get support from courageous, principled MP's we're buggered- there aren't enough. We need the many Labour MP's who are like Streeting to know that they will never win power with the slogan 'more rapists in women's prisons'.

I doubt that Streeting ever truly believed TWAW even while working at Stonewall.

It's all about which way the wind is blowing. In 2019 it was blowing strongly in favour of the genderists - witness Swinson's proud TWAW claims on every radio show she went on. It was the bandwagon to be on for any self-proclaimed progressive party.

But we've made significant inroads since then and canny politicians with an eye on the future are going to have to dial down the TWAW rhetoric.

That doesn't mean if they win power they won't still try to sell women down the river.

I don't trust him on this issue as far as I could throw him. Sorry.

Well, crikey. The hyperbole has astounded me. I thought Wes' weaselly words were barely worth noting, but he's already been denounced by Socialist Voice!

'Wes Streeting - like his Blairite colleague Rosie Duffield - is a T**F

JK Rowling has made offensive comments about transgender people - Labour continues defending those who sow division as the party seeks votes from Tories and the Tommy Robinson cult'

twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/1479551606219845633

Oh, ooops. I've used a wrongword, there, apologies, MN, was a quote from Socialist Voice. I starred out the other one!