Wes Streeting on trans rights.

[HPFA]

It doesn't end well (switch off from 1:56 to save your blood pressure) but some encouraging things in this from a prominent Labour frontbencher.

1. Speaks well about J K Rowling.

2. Also uses the phrase "sex-based rights" in a non-pejorative way.

No Labour front bencher could have gone this far even a few months ago. Times are changing.

twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1479470186172493828

I’m hoping Wes has just changed his mind.

I’m muttering “golden bridges, golden bridges, golden bridges...” to myself

But honestly anything that isn’t calling for JK Rowling to be cancelled/ repeating TWAW ad nauseum feels like a win here. Frustrating though the revisionism is.

I know better than to tune in to listen to anything he has to say. Always have to mute him when he's on politics programmes.

This talk of a stick of rock and being a Labour leader. Can't think how that could be. There's nothing about him other than predictable boring fanatic.

Agreed. Because he is a soft left careerist is exactly why we can trust him in as much he is interested in winning elections. As someone has said we can play the long game.

Look he is never going to say the rad fems were right all along. He thinks they are awful and scary, BUT his inability to accept he has lost the argument doesn't mean we don't seize the ground he is offering and move forward. This is another sign the time is coming.

Gen Crits big advantage is we have a multi layered assault team.

Streeting based on this is going to be happy to talk to JKR, Prof Stock and Debbie Hayton etc. Wonderful let him. They will open the gates. The thing is even without them the gates are already starting to fall down. They are not going to last much longer.

The thing is behind the gates is a huge horde of dinosaurs all living on Labour Island. Streeting thinks the dinosaurs can be controlled and he can use them to get votes. Yeah it isn't going to work like that this time.

The scary thing for Streeting is the Labour Party is full of thousands of dinosaurs. Right now those dinosaurs are pretty disorganised, many don't know each other, they are isolated.

Labour Woman's Declaration has sounded the dinosaur roar. We all know there are a lot of other dinos out there on Labour island. We can hear them!

Next step though is to form a dinosaur army. Then the dinosaurs take their island back.

Can't wait to see a herd? of dinosaurs marching on Lammy and Starmer roaring "Only a woman has a cervix"

Yes, brought all those Lily Madigan memories back.. panic setting in at Labour HQ maybe .. anyway it's good that there's even a smidgen of backtracking. I'd find it hard to trust Wes though after all that went on.

Labour leadership candidate, not necessarily a successful one - god knows 2015 showed that the best qualified candidates don't always win labour leadership contests.

He's young, smart and ambitious, and can think on his feet - as that interview shows. He makes the current government look like a bunch of absolute thickos (though they do that without any help, tbf).

If Starmer goes before the next election or after losing it, I'd bet Streeting will be a front runner to replace him. That's one reason why he's got to try to undo some of the damage all this misogynistic crap had done with 'old lady feminists' who haven't left the party (probably not a great idea to still bang on about how we're all old gimmers though, Wes).

Absolutely right, fromorbit - agree with every word of that.

I agree with the posters who've said he's a self-interested careerist. I think that's probably right. But if he perceives it as being in his interests to utter the phrase 'sex-based rights' seriously, and say there's a conflict that needs to be discussed. then that seems like a significant move forward. Less than six months ago Keir Starmer was saying that "only women have a cervix" was something that shouldn't be said, and David Lammy called us dinosaurs hoarding our rights. If the Labour Party has woken up to the vote-loser that sort of rubbish is, then so much the better. I'm not satisfied with what he said, far from it - but the roll back has to start somewhere, and this looks like a reasonable start.

That's if, of course, twitter isn't ablaze tomorrow with TWAW and trans people are the most oppressed group ever from the Labour front benches. So I'm cautiously optimistic, but waiting to see what comes next.

That's brilliant. Exactly.

I think we can rest when none of the 3 main parties are pushing TWAW and self id. I assume at that point sports, refuges, prisons, hospital wards and changing rooms will have been sorted too.
Go to bed glinner

I agree with the posters who've said he's a self-interested careerist. I think that's probably right. But if he perceives it as being in his interests to utter the phrase 'sex-based rights' seriously, and say there's a conflict that needs to be discussed. then that seems like a significant move forward
I agree. My personal opinion of Streeting is neither here nor there. The point is that an ambitious politician chooses their words, and the timing of those words very carefully. They also keep their ear to the ground. If Streeting is saying this, I can only assume it's because he knows which way the wind is blowing.

It's just all a bit obvious. A few months ago they were all TWAW, the big about turn is the turning tide. I don't trust this sort of superficiality at all. They're also watching the US. Biden's alt-woke is really scaring people and the mid-terms potential to destroy Democrats might be giving Labour, Lib-Dems a real fright.

The voters Sir K and Wez are trying to win back aren't woke and wont buy TWAW. Jess Philips was onto this 'just need to talk' but GC women have been wanting dialogue for years. They are only listening now because they recognise it's a big vote loser.

Guessing that the private polling is making them scared. All the next election needs is the Tories talking constantly about Karen White and Labour will lose. Even to this shower of Tory wankers.
The "both sides" shit is galling and they will need to sort that shit out. Because even a Tory party intern can search Twitter and screenshot all the rape threats and death threats and stick them on a poster.

Watching all the TWAW woke bros turning on him is fun, though.

Agree - ‘it’s not going to win hearts and minds’ is far from ‘death and rape threats are unacceptable’ - he’s not admonishing their behaviour just critiquing their tactics! Yet when he gets onto GC feminists it’s all ‘dehumanising language’ when THEY are the ones on the receiving end of Die Terfs and Choke on my dick, not to mention vagina-bodies, cervix-havers etc. It’s a ‘bad look’ to threaten, hound and doxx an a victim of domestic violence (!!!) no, it’s literal abuse, and yes women don’t need to have experienced abuse to be spared judgment for being GC (though the numbers of women who haven’t experienced any abuse in life... I hope they exist. I’m not sure I know any).

Crumbs is right @FOJN

That said given the current rhetoric, and putting my most positive spin on this, I would like to hope this is the beginning of a slow rollback based on a party-wide realisation that women exist, have the vote and are not fucking playing (well done guys! )

But then I watch this and my sly, slippery, political cunt-dar goes off and I remember how much they hate and want to erase women and groups that fight for women.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhUzPyUvpOg

I take his not going to win hearts and minds comment as meaning they need to pretend to be more reasonable in order to win the battle

I don't trust this sort of superficiality at all. They're also watching the US. Biden's alt-woke is really scaring people and the mid-terms potential to destroy Democrats might be giving Labour, Lib-Dems a real fright.

True, but inevitably whoever is winning it's going to be in part by such superficial support. There are always going to be a bunch of "bend whichever way the wind's blowing" people.

So we've got to accept those people's support, not too grudgingly. Don't blow back when the wind's blowing them our way.

I feel cautiously positive over this. Every small step means it is easier to voice sensible views in public (such as ‘men shouldn’t be in women’s prisons’ and ‘sport should be single sex). And since we are pretty sure that when faced with sunlight, the majority of people agree single sex spaces are needed, and people can’t change sex, then it makes it easier to have a debate over the next areas (single sex wards, right to female doctors etc).

It is changing political discourse from ‘I don’t want to go there, squirm, platitudes, starting point is TWAW’ to ‘there are some serious concerns that need to be answered’.

And, if the message from the top of Labour ceases to be ‘TWAW, no debate’ then a number of Labour MPs will start to voice reasonable concerns about the lack of single sex provisions.

Use better tactics to educate and defeat these abusive old women. Don't try to cancel a feminist who frames her views in terms of being a victim (no problem if she's just speaking her mind). Maybe let go of stuff like cervix haver and chest feeding - it's looking like they won't agree to having their lives wiped out entirely. Use the phrase single-sex spaces as if we respect them. Then use kid gloves to lead women on the kind, caring 'journey' to - ha ha! - self ID. Got 'em.
I'll watch and wait, and I very much welcome his urging trans activists to dial down the aggression, but I've read enough of Wes Streeting to know he's not my friend.

I agree with the others who are (very) cautiously optimistic here. It suggests that someone has been doing some polling.

But finding a middle way is going to be very hard for the Labour Party: so many CLP activists have views that mean they have little in common (on all sorts of issues, but especially this) with the people whose votes they need to form a government. Which is why Starmer is always so nervous of rocking the Labour Party boat.

@bellinisurge

Watching all the TWAW woke bros turning on him is fun, though.

That alone would be worth it, I suppose.

Meanwhile ...

ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAR

@ScribblingPixie

Use better tactics to educate and defeat these abusive old women. Don't try to cancel a feminist who frames her views in terms of being a victim (no problem if she's just speaking her mind). Maybe let go of stuff like cervix haver and chest feeding - it's looking like they won't agree to having their lives wiped out entirely. Use the phrase single-sex spaces as if we respect them. Then use kid gloves to lead women on the kind, caring 'journey' to - ha ha! - self ID. Got 'em. I'll watch and wait, and I very much welcome his urging trans activists to dial down the aggression, but I've read enough of Wes Streeting to know he's not my friend.

Agreed. Trojan Horse springs to mind.

Streeting's whole argument is based on the premise that women are wrong but we have to find a way to teach them why they are wrong.

He's just suggesting TRAs swap threats for faux compassion the better to deal with the silly, nasty, confused women's wrongness before he removes all of our rights systematically. He still wants/expects women to capitulate, he just wants us to feel grateful for it instead of fucking raging at the utter injustice.

I mean, well done anyone that can countenance building a golden bridge for the twerp, 'I promise not to push him off it' is about the best I can do.

I do not like or trust Wes Streeting but then I don't like or trust all feminists either. I don't think either fact is the point here. I don't see it as being about him personally; what I am seeing is an ambitious politician apparently deciding it would be wise to distance himself from extreme TRA rhetoric. Even if he retracts - and he might well do so - it's out there now. I think it's a sign that things are slowly shifting, nothing more and nothing less.

Necessary Arabella Can I agree with both? Of course I bloody can Let's remember that us (used to be) staunch Labour voters have always had that superior, we know best attitude. Labour are still trying to convince their should be 'die hard' voters to have open borders and that got them nowhere. They have now decided that there does need to be a policy. Perhaps they will begin to change, but they have lots more to do. I look forward to their manifesto