USA: Almost 50% of Trans Inmates in Federal Custody for Sex Offences

[Delphinium20]

4w.pub/50-of-trans-inmates-in-federal-custody-for-sex-offences/

Amanda Stulman, the Director of the USA branch of Keep Prisons Single Sex obtained these documents on December 14, 2021. I knew she had a Freedom of Information Request out for this (which had attempts by our own ACLU to block it), but I had no idea this information showed worse rates of criminal sex behavior than the general male prison population.

"According to the document, 48.47% of biological male inmates identifying as women are in federal custody for sex offences, compared to just 4.71% of biological females identifying as men, and 11.2% of the non-transgender male population of federal inmates in general."

Please note that these are our country's FEDERAL sex crimes which are particularly heinous (sorry, I stole that adjective from Law and Order). People convicted of lesser sex crimes like prostitution are not convicted of federal sex crimes.

Federal sex crimes include sex crimes against children and minors; sex trafficking; sex crimes committed as part of criminal conspiracies over time; sex crimes involving torture, murder, kidnapping, imprisonment, sadism and federal hate crime aggravators; sex crimes involving the making, distribution or possession of images or footage of children and minors being sexually abused; sex crimes that involve crossing state lines or the USA's borders.

That's interesting. So either

(1) transwomen are more likely to be sexual offenders than men; or
(2) men who are sexual offenders are claiming to be trans.

One has to be true.

But that would never happen.

We are discussing male sexual offenders in womens prisons in AIBU at the moment. Do we have a UK version with stats too?

@TurquoiseBaubles

That's interesting. So either

(1) transwomen are more likely to be sexual offenders than men; or
(2) men who are sexual offenders are claiming to be trans.

One has to be true.

Yes, I’ve made a similar point.

Either TRAs have to acknowledge that males who identify as trans are just as much a risk to women as other males, therefore women’s concerns are valid OR

TRAs have to acknowledge that predatory males will take advantage of self-ID for their own gains to access vulnerable women, therefore women’s concerns are valid.

The US data is newly available. Sorry, I don't have UK data.

Do we have a UK version with stats too?

There's some analysis of the UK figures here.

fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/

Official figures released by the MOJ in 2018 show that half of all known transgender prisoners counted in April 2017 had at least one previous conviction for sex offences.

I've linked this thread on AIBU - I hope you don't mind Delphinium20.

Such a bloody important piece of information.

No one born male should ever be in a female prison.
Third spaces are crucial.

Either TRAs have to acknowledge that males who identify as trans are just as much a risk to women as other males, therefore women’s concerns are valid OR

TRAs have to acknowledge that predatory males will take advantage of self-ID for their own gains to access vulnerable women, therefore women’s concerns are valid.

100% this. In fact, it would appear that, in the first scenario, males who identify as trans are actually significantly more of a risk, statistically, than other males.

But don’t worry. I’m also 100% sure that TRAs will find a way to make this all the nasty women’s fault, as usual, and to exonerate every single one of those sex offenders, and paint our concerns as a terrible hate crime - and of course even the fact of obtaining the stats will be portrayed as an act of deepest, darkest transphobia.

Maybe there won’t be quite so many people willing to listen to them now though.

@TurquoiseBaubles

I've linked this thread on AIBU - I hope you don't mind Delphinium20.

Not at all!

Behind this is the enormous push to record men's crimes as women's crimes. To record them not as transwomen but as women. The idea is to obliterate the distinction completely so we can't ever know the numbers of transwomen in prison let alone what crimes they've committed because they're all just women like the rest.
We're headed right for that.

Interested to see the arguments as to why this is incorrect/ irrelevant etc on Twitter...

@TurquoiseBaubles

That's interesting. So either

(1) transwomen are more likely to be sexual offenders than men; or
(2) men who are sexual offenders are claiming to be trans.

One has to be true.

I don’t even think it’s either/or. Both could be true.

I don't disagree with you at all and I suspect that both the options as formulated by @TurquoiseBaubles are true. However in the interests of balance a proper analysis would also have to consider:

To what extent does the fact of someone identifying as trans make it more likely that a trans offender will be caught and convicted as compared to an equally guilty offender who conforms to gender norms in other respects? This could be due to heightened suspicion or even transphobia in the general population, in the police or within the justice system. It seems unlikely that this would account for all of the dramatic statistical differences but we can't assume it's not a factor. The general male population could be just as much of a risk but never caught/convicted (remember the ridiculously low conviction rates for sex crimes).

The other question that would need some research for a complete analysis of the causes of the statistical differences would be to assess the extent to which cultural pressures towards gender conforming presentation and behaviour are responsible for cultivating a dysfunctional mental landscape that is unsuccessfully repressed and eventually explodes as a criminal pathology? Is it the case that if 7yo Jonny had never been beaten or ridiculed for wanting to wear a dress and play with dolls, then maybe as a 40yo the individual would never have been on the path that spiraled into criminal behaviour in the first place. Such factors are likely to be a contribution to why some offenders don't come out as trans until after conviction.

Neither of these factors make it ok to put female prisoners at risk by housing male trans prisoners with them. Answering these questions of course requires that the prison and justice service have accurate records that clearly define the facts of each individual's actual biologically real and unchangeable sex as well as their gender identity. It's impossible to do the research that would genuinely help trans people in the future if the language to talk about the real differences is made taboo.

Even without digging into the fine detail, stats like this utterly sink the 'gender identity' hypothesis, because it's utterly clear that behaviour of 'trans' people is closer to their actual sex than the opposite one.

They may have a belief about their sex/gender, but that belief is demonstrably not affecting sexed behaviour. 'Gender' is clearly a worse predictor than sex.

The fact that this reflects what we know about the UK prison population is key.

Two rather different prison systems, two different criminal justice systems (Law & Order in my head now.) Similar over representation of sex crime amongst that population.

I understand about phobia concerns underlying conviction. But if this is showing similar numbers in these two countries, there needs to be acknowledgement if the fact. And that males should not be incarcerated in female prisons. Ever.

Of. Not if.

Thanks for the stats, it was the stats on UK TW sex offenders that got through a loved ones ‘poor vulnerable TW in prison need protection’ pov.

As an aside I wonder how much this thread will be targeted by the monitors for deletion..

I'm an objectivist. I'm not philosophically opposed to the ideal of "lady brains in mens bodies". Men and women clearly do have statistical behaviour differences, like all mammals. Maybe there could be a demonstrable subgroup of males that statistically behaved like females.

If anyone could demonstrate evidence of it happening, it would be fascinating.

But the evidence is never there. Indeed, as I believe Helen Joyce said (paraphrasing), sexed behaviour is never so obvious as within groups denying their sex.

What we see is people claiming all sorts of perfectly within-in-normal-overlap character traits as evidence of transness, but in all statistical measures of things that are clearly sexed behaviour, those behaviours correspond to actual sex.

Crime stats are some of the biggest differences, so provide the clearest evidence.

If males with lady brains do exist, we do not know how to isolate that population and have it show up in the stats.

The gatekept definition of "homosexual with extreme gender dysphoria" was an attempt to do that, but even that didn't get close to "female" behaviour afaik. But under self-ID, you're mainly picking up males with normal or even extremely male behaviour.

Is prostitution counted as a sex crime in the US?

It would be informative to see what percentage of those prisoners became trans after incarceration, but I suspect those records are not kept.

That is covered in the OP Spartacus - it says this data is for federal (most serious types) sex crimes only, and does not include prostitution, which though it looks like it may be considered a crime in some states/circumstances, is not counted as a federal sex crime.

I'm not philosophically opposed to the ideal of "lady brains in mens bodies". Men and women clearly do have statistical behaviour differences, like all mammals. Maybe there could be a demonstrable subgroup of males that statistically behaved like females.

I don't want to derail this thread, but 'lady brains'? This is the sort of thing that kept women in the home for centuries. Not allowed to be educated, to vote, to work in most professions.

As for a "subgroup of males that statistically behaved like females." What is the point of separating off a group of people who are just not typical of their sex? Where do you draw the line for typical and atypical behaviour when there is a huge overlap?

If males with lady brains do exist, we do not know how to isolate that population and have it show up in the stats.

Men with behaviour which is atypical for males are still men and already show in the statistics. Do you think we should also isolate women with 'male brains'?

That is covered in the OP Spartacus - it says this data is for federal (most serious types) sex crimes only, and does not include prostitution, which though it looks like it may be considered a crime in some states/circumstances, is not counted as a federal sex crime.

In about 2009 a study in California prisons found that 20% MTF prisoners were signing the sex offender register. I looked into this and prostitution related crimes didn't require you to do so in and of themselves, obviously they might if non consensual ie you were a pimp of underage girls, or trafficking women. But someone convicted of soliciting etc wouldn't have to sign the register.